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Post by cmdrperalta on Dec 10, 2017 13:56:21 GMT -5
... been playing the game for years. Obviously does not need to improve his hangar. Tanks anyway. He's a bad pilot, too. I very nearly killed his shocktrain bulg with a lvl 9 gareth. We should have won this game. I can't stand players like that.
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Post by bronzeknee on Dec 10, 2017 14:02:30 GMT -5
Don't hate the player.
Hate the game.
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Post by thewhitestar on Dec 10, 2017 14:09:10 GMT -5
Diamond League? Yikes I must be like lower than low, I am only Silver II. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 14:33:02 GMT -5
Don't hate the player. Hate the game. Nope, I hate tankers. They ruin the game for everyone.
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Post by NerFB on Dec 10, 2017 14:43:21 GMT -5
Don't hate the player. Hate the game. I know what you mean, Pix designed it that way, but...... My car does 160mph, if I choose to do that on the road I go prison, not the manufacturer.
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Post by hi5 on Dec 10, 2017 15:05:39 GMT -5
I like to think I’ve acquired a refined pallet for identifying tankers. I believe this one’s only been playing for a year or less with that win total (multi-year players are usually about 8k and up). It also does not appear to be a hardcore tanker given the lower max winning streak (typically see 80+ From those climbing up from the lowest leagues or LQ). Clearly a spender though, likely tanking for the event. Possibly using organized drops with others.
Not justifying, but when the prizes for an event (x2 shock and Bulg) usually cost in excess of $300-$400 this has to be somewhat expected. Yet one more fun side effect from OP gear with astronomical RM costs and no realistic way to grind.
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Post by zer00eyz on Dec 10, 2017 15:11:44 GMT -5
Don't hate the player. Hate the game. I know what you mean, Pix designed it that way, but...... My car does 160mph, if I choose to do that on the road I go prison, not the manufacturer. Thats a really bad analogy: Autobahn is the instant counter example to that (and somewhat safer per km traveled than american highways) Pix is not incompetent or incapable -- at this juncture people need to face the fact that it is the way it is by design.
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Post by NerFB on Dec 10, 2017 15:27:20 GMT -5
I know what you mean, Pix designed it that way, but...... My car does 160mph, if I choose to do that on the road I go prison, not the manufacturer. Thats a really bad analogy: Autobahn is the instant counter example to that (and somewhat safer per km traveled than american highways) Pix is not incompetent or incapable -- at this juncture people need to face the fact that it is the way it is by design. Ok, not my best analogy, but let’s run with your suggestion. My point is it’s the drivers not the manufacturer who break the law, and drivers = pilots/players. The Autobahn is safer because of Driver behaviour, Lane awareness, consideration for other drivers. They have fewer “Tankers” abusing the system than we do in the UK for example. I’ve read your comments on this before, and don’t expect you to agree, but just elaborating to explain my personal opinion.
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Post by ᕲΣΣᕲƧ on Dec 10, 2017 15:41:51 GMT -5
Lol, I have no mkii bots or weapons, play 2 leagues higher, and have a better kills/damage average. I'm pretty sure I could be pushing a million damage average with that hangar in diamond...even with other tankers mixed in.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 15:45:38 GMT -5
There are currently just as bad or worse in the lower leagues (high silver & gold). That is the first time I have seen 3 hangars opened though.
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Post by cmdrperalta on Dec 10, 2017 16:08:52 GMT -5
Don't hate the player. Hate the game. Nope, I hate tankers. They ruin the game for everyone. I totally agree. Pix is taking reasonable steps to address this kind of thing with the leaver's queue, incentivizing remaining in higher leagues and reducing the importance of league and increasing importance of hangar strength in MM. But ppl who are already fully stocked will still go to great lengths to abuse the system. To me, this says more about that person's character than it does the developer or the quality of the game. The only thing I can do when i come across it is to shame them, so there it is. Also, the 24k cup points is the giveaway to a multi-year player.
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Post by zer00eyz on Dec 10, 2017 16:28:40 GMT -5
Thats a really bad analogy: Autobahn is the instant counter example to that (and somewhat safer per km traveled than american highways) Pix is not incompetent or incapable -- at this juncture people need to face the fact that it is the way it is by design. Ok, not my best analogy, but let’s run with your suggestion. My point is it’s the drivers not the manufacturer who break the law, and drivers = pilots/players. The Autobahn is safer because of Driver behaviour, Lane awareness, consideration for other drivers. They have fewer “Tankers” abusing the system than we do in the UK for example. I’ve read your comments on this before, and don’t expect you to agree, but just elaborating to explain my personal opinion. There are three basic arguments that one can make against tanking: - Moral
- Ethical
- "Legal" (rules)
Morality in video games is an interesting one, because the two can be mixed -- I don't think War Robots qualifies in any way shape or form for the moral stance. An ethical argument can be made, one about disruption of other players, one about "fairness" however that is a rather slippery slope. The one counter argument is pix's own words: Pix itself will happily do things that we can agree are "unethical" or at least on the side of unethical in the absence of regulation. This leaves the law, or in this case the "rules" - We don't have a clear, pubic statement about "tanking" directly from Pixonic: there has been NO RULE set by them to establish what behavior is and is not acceptable. We as a community seem to have some consensus on this topic, but based on recent history I would not be willing to qualify our feelings and opinions as mattering much to Pixonic. We all know that the LPQ exists but lets be frank that it only pays lip service to your issue and isn't an actual solution. The questions that remain are: Is the problem solvable (yes) and is pix incapable (no) -- This leaves ONE unfortunate conclusion that it is there by design, OR the issue isn't large enough to have cost pix actual dollars where they would be FORCED to address it. The policy we (this forum) has only impacts those that remain, and choose the path of self regulation. It is is one that has not worked and isn't going to magically start working. To parrot bronzeknee don't hate the player hate the game (maker).
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Post by T34 on Dec 10, 2017 17:19:10 GMT -5
If Pix wanted to fix this issue they would. But they aren’t. Its not even against the rules (last I checked). Everything to date has been a token gesture to appease the people who complain about this stuff while they made tanking easier with just about every single system related change. Not only did they make tanking easier but they also provided one incentive after another for people to tank. The announcement of the incentives to remain in higher leagues is another token gesture as the rewards lower are way superior. The LQ has nothing to do with tanking and clubbing. Its another token gesture as is the removal of rewards from it.
They run a business and in reality they run it to maximise the return on investment. They are very calculative and have well thought through plans. Much better at game design than you or me or most likely anyone else on this forum. Execution is sometimes poor due to communication related issues. As zer00eyz put it “at this juncture people need to face the fact that it is the way it is by design.”
Perhaps its thereby design because this way they can cater for the needs of a larger percentage of the population. There are those who pay big sums of money to get the advantage and there are those that pay a smaller sums and manipulate the league system to their advantage. Maybe you should consider shaming the blue whales as well because they achieve the same result by paying large sums of money (and the MM mixes them with much lesser opposition).
On the flip side, for the player it’s just a mobile game to get his/her kicks the way he/she likes (which pix allows/cater for). Simple as that.
I think you need to look a bit deeper to see the whole picture that you are just as much a part of as everyone else. You are a tanker and a seal clubber too when the MM serves you opponents from gold and Diamond leagues (mixing of leagues is a relatively recent change). You are participating in a game that sells “power”. “Power” sells as was said by senior pix employees and thats the strategy they are following now. And skills is another interesting element of modern game design. Its called the “illusion” of skill for the player.
Leave the player(s) alone. Have a go at Pix. Tell/ask them to make the game fairer. Abandon league mixing, bring bark or partially bring back hanger based MM…… A game that is well balanced between monetisation and skill is the best game IMO. But do you think Pix wants that and even more importantly do you think most of the players want that? Especially those that pay!
Edit: tag cmdrperalta
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Post by T34 on Dec 10, 2017 17:31:43 GMT -5
Lol, I have no mkii bots or weapons, play 2 leagues higher, and have a better kills/damage average. I'm pretty sure I could be pushing a million damage average with that hangar in diamond...even with other tankers mixed in. If he tanks his average is not going to be high because those stats will nose dive during the down cycle. On the upcyle he will probably get over a mil damage every game. The "i am better than him despite what he has" is a very shaky argument in a P2W game.
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Post by cmdrperalta on Dec 10, 2017 17:38:10 GMT -5
If Pix wanted to fix this issue they would. But they aren’t. Its not even against the rules (last I checked). Everything to date has been a token gesture to appease the people who complain about this stuff while they made tanking easier with just about every single system related change. Not only did they make tanking easier but they also provided one incentive after another for people to tank. The announcement of the incentives to remain in higher leagues is another token gesture as the rewards lower are way superior. The LQ has nothing to do with tanking and clubbing. Its another token gesture as is the removal of rewards from it.
They run a business and in reality they run it to maximise the return on investment. They are very calculative and have well thought through plans. Much better at game design than you or me or most likely anyone else on this forum. Execution is sometimes poor due to communication related issues. As zer00eyz put it “at this juncture people need to face the fact that it is the way it is by design.”
Perhaps its thereby design because this way they can cater for the needs of a larger percentage of the population. There are those who pay big sums of money to get the advantage and there are those that pay a smaller sums and manipulate the league system to their advantage. Maybe you should consider shaming the blue whales as well because they achieve the same result by paying large sums of money (and the MM mixes them with much lesser opposition).
On the flip side, for the player it’s just a mobile game to get his/her kicks the way he/she likes (which pix allows/cater for). Simple as that.
I think you need to look a bit deeper to see the whole picture that you are just as much a part of as everyone else. You are a tanker and a seal clubber too when the MM serves you opponents from gold and Diamond leagues (mixing of leagues is a relatively recent change). You are participating in a game that sells “power”. “Power” sells as was said by senior pix employees and thats the strategy they are following now. And skills is another interesting element of modern game design. Its called the “illusion” of skill for the player.
Leave the player(s) alone. Have a go at Pix. Tell/ask them to make the game fairer. Abandon league mixing, bring bark or partially bring back hanger based MM…… A game that is well balanced between monetisation and skill is the best game IMO. But do you think Pix wants that and even more importantly do you think most of the players want that? Especially those that pay!
Edit: tag cmdrperalta
I agree with much of your analysis. However, I disagree with your conclusion about not shaming ppl who pull this kind of thing. I'm also okay with shaming the whales.
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Post by T34 on Dec 10, 2017 17:50:22 GMT -5
If Pix wanted to fix this issue they would. But they aren’t. Its not even against the rules (last I checked). Everything to date has been a token gesture to appease the people who complain about this stuff while they made tanking easier with just about every single system related change. Not only did they make tanking easier but they also provided one incentive after another for people to tank. The announcement of the incentives to remain in higher leagues is another token gesture as the rewards lower are way superior. The LQ has nothing to do with tanking and clubbing. Its another token gesture as is the removal of rewards from it.
They run a business and in reality they run it to maximise the return on investment. They are very calculative and have well thought through plans. Much better at game design than you or me or most likely anyone else on this forum. Execution is sometimes poor due to communication related issues. As zer00eyz put it “at this juncture people need to face the fact that it is the way it is by design.”
Perhaps its thereby design because this way they can cater for the needs of a larger percentage of the population. There are those who pay big sums of money to get the advantage and there are those that pay a smaller sums and manipulate the league system to their advantage. Maybe you should consider shaming the blue whales as well because they achieve the same result by paying large sums of money (and the MM mixes them with much lesser opposition).
On the flip side, for the player it’s just a mobile game to get his/her kicks the way he/she likes (which pix allows/cater for). Simple as that.
I think you need to look a bit deeper to see the whole picture that you are just as much a part of as everyone else. You are a tanker and a seal clubber too when the MM serves you opponents from gold and Diamond leagues (mixing of leagues is a relatively recent change). You are participating in a game that sells “power”. “Power” sells as was said by senior pix employees and thats the strategy they are following now. And skills is another interesting element of modern game design. Its called the “illusion” of skill for the player.
Leave the player(s) alone. Have a go at Pix. Tell/ask them to make the game fairer. Abandon league mixing, bring bark or partially bring back hanger based MM…… A game that is well balanced between monetisation and skill is the best game IMO. But do you think Pix wants that and even more importantly do you think most of the players want that? Especially those that pay!
Edit: tag cmdrperalta
I agree with much of your analysis. However, I disagree with your conclusion about not shaming ppl who pull this kind of thing. I'm also okay with shaming the whales. Don’t understand how you agree with much of it but disagree about shaming people. I really do not understand what rights or moral high ground you have for “shaming” paying customers. Especially the ones that pay a lot. That is way beyond me TBH. Its like trying to shame every Ferrari or Lambo owner because you have lost a drag race at the red lights to a Lambo once upon a time while in your Honda civic.
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Post by cmdrperalta on Dec 10, 2017 17:57:01 GMT -5
I agree with much of your analysis. However, I disagree with your conclusion about not shaming ppl who pull this kind of thing. I'm also okay with shaming the whales. Don’t understand how you agree with much of it but disagree about shaming people. I really do not understand what rights or moral high ground you have for “shaming” paying customers. Especially the ones that pay a lot. That is way beyond me TBH. Its like trying to shame every Ferrari or Lambo owner because you have lost a drag race at the red lights to a Lambo once upon a time while in your Honda civic. I disagree with the conduct. I reserve the right to criticize ppl whose conduct I disagree with. I have no problem with ppl buying a lamborghini or whatever. But if they are driving like an a-hole or otherwise violating reasonable standards of conduct, or in this case gaming the reward system to receive an undue benefit, then I have no problem criticizing them. If the software developer can't or won't police it then it is up to ppl in the community who feel as I do to use what reasonable means are at our disposal to call attention to the conduct and criticize it. If you are running double 12 mark 2 dashes on everything and a hangar of lvl 1 cossacks fpr the purpose of tanking and clubbing, you're acting like an a-hole. Period. It's a 100% selfish act that is screwing 11 other ppl you are playing with by unbalancing every single game that you play. BTW, I meant that I agree with your analysis of the human motivations to behave badly in the game. However, I disagree that Pix has not taken reasonable steps to discourage it and I do not share your view that the conduct is justified b/c it is possible. I say by way of analogy that ppl who violate the spirit of the law but remain to the letter are worse than ppl who violate the letter in many ways.
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Post by zer00eyz on Dec 10, 2017 18:35:08 GMT -5
Don’t understand how you agree with much of it but disagree about shaming people. I really do not understand what rights or moral high ground you have for “shaming” paying customers. Especially the ones that pay a lot. That is way beyond me TBH. Its like trying to shame every Ferrari or Lambo owner because you have lost a drag race at the red lights to a Lambo once upon a time while in your Honda civic. I disagree with the conduct. I reserve the right to criticize ppl whose conduct I disagree with. I have no problem with ppl buying a lamborghini or whatever. But if they are driving like an a-hole or otherwise violating reasonable standards of conduct, or in this case gaming the reward system to receive an undue benefit, then I have no problem criticizing them. If the software developer can't or won't police it then it is up to ppl in the community who feel as I do to use what reasonable means are at our disposal to call attention to the conduct and criticize it. If you are running double 12 mark 2 dashes on everything and a hangar of lvl 1 cossacks fpr the purpose of tanking and clubbing, you're acting like an a-hole. Period. It's a 100% selfish act that is screwing 11 other ppl you are playing with by unbalancing every single game that you play. BTW, I meant that I agree with your analysis of the human motivations to behave badly in the game. However, I disagree that Pix has not taken reasonable steps to discourage it and I do not share your view that the conduct is justified b/c it is possible. I say by way of analogy that ppl who violate the spirit of the law but remain to the letter are worse than ppl who violate the letter in many ways. > "then it is up to ppl in the community who feel as I do to use what reasonable means are at our disposal to call attention to the conduct and criticize it" The last time I checked this forum was so ardently anti tanker that most of them simply DONT hang out here or are more discrete about their activities. These are not people you have embraced as brothers (and sisters) who would feel ANYTHING by your attempts to shame them. As for the "community" taking a stand, well there was a larger boycott movement over the dash bot pricing/gambling then there ever was around tanking, and pix did exactly zero in a timely manner. Honestly both movements got the same response, placation, and 1/2 measures that did nothing to solve the underlying issue, because to state it simply WE had the issue NOT pix. "Posting" tankers, "shaming" tankers, these things ARENT WORKING. That saying "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" really does apply here, what has been done so far has failed, it will continue to fail, and without some change people either need to stop whining about it or adopt a new tactic.
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Post by cmdrperalta on Dec 10, 2017 18:53:16 GMT -5
I disagree with the conduct. I reserve the right to criticize ppl whose conduct I disagree with. I have no problem with ppl buying a lamborghini or whatever. But if they are driving like an a-hole or otherwise violating reasonable standards of conduct, or in this case gaming the reward system to receive an undue benefit, then I have no problem criticizing them. If the software developer can't or won't police it then it is up to ppl in the community who feel as I do to use what reasonable means are at our disposal to call attention to the conduct and criticize it. If you are running double 12 mark 2 dashes on everything and a hangar of lvl 1 cossacks fpr the purpose of tanking and clubbing, you're acting like an a-hole. Period. It's a 100% selfish act that is screwing 11 other ppl you are playing with by unbalancing every single game that you play. BTW, I meant that I agree with your analysis of the human motivations to behave badly in the game. However, I disagree that Pix has not taken reasonable steps to discourage it and I do not share your view that the conduct is justified b/c it is possible. I say by way of analogy that ppl who violate the spirit of the law but remain to the letter are worse than ppl who violate the letter in many ways. > "then it is up to ppl in the community who feel as I do to use what reasonable means are at our disposal to call attention to the conduct and criticize it" The last time I checked this forum was so ardently anti tanker that most of them simply DONT hang out here or are more discrete about their activities. These are not people you have embraced as brothers (and sisters) who would feel ANYTHING by your attempts to shame them. As for the "community" taking a stand, well there was a larger boycott movement over the dash bot pricing/gambling then there ever was around tanking, and pix did exactly zero in a timely manner. Honestly both movements got the same response, placation, and 1/2 measures that did nothing to solve the underlying issue, because to state it simply WE had the issue NOT pix. "Posting" tankers, "shaming" tankers, these things ARENT WORKING. That saying "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" really does apply here, what has been done so far has failed, it will continue to fail, and without some change people either need to stop whining about it or adopt a new tactic. I disagree. At a certain point, you crossed a line from offering some interesting insights to being a complete boor (bore? Maybe both). How about taking your own advice and instead of whining about these posts, which I have just started doing in the last week, take a different tactic. May I suggest, "You do you"? Plenty to talk about if this doesn't interest you.
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Post by T34 on Dec 10, 2017 19:09:36 GMT -5
Don’t understand how you agree with much of it but disagree about shaming people. I really do not understand what rights or moral high ground you have for “shaming” paying customers. Especially the ones that pay a lot. That is way beyond me TBH. Its like trying to shame every Ferrari or Lambo owner because you have lost a drag race at the red lights to a Lambo once upon a time while in your Honda civic. I disagree with the conduct. I reserve the right to criticize ppl whose conduct I disagree with. I have no problem with ppl buying a lamborghini or whatever. But if they are driving like an a-hole or otherwise violating reasonable standards of conduct, or in this case gaming the reward system to receive an undue benefit, then I have no problem criticizing them. If the software developer can't or won't police it then it is up to ppl in the community who feel as I do to use what reasonable means are at our disposal to call attention to the conduct and criticize it. If you are running double 12 mark 2 dashes on everything and a hangar of lvl 1 cossacks fpr the purpose of tanking and clubbing, you're acting like an a-hole. Period. It's a 100% selfish act that is screwing 11 other ppl you are playing with by unbalancing every single game that you play. BTW, I meant that I agree with your analysis of the human motivations to behave badly in the game. However, I disagree that Pix has not taken reasonable steps to discourage it and I do not share your view that the conduct is justified b/c it is possible. I say by way of analogy that ppl who violate the spirit of the law but remain to the letter are worse than ppl who violate the letter in many ways. The lambo buyers (blue whales in this game) are doing everything within the rules and are not driving like an a-hole nor violating ANY standards of conduct set down by the organiser. Maybe a better analogy would have been you turning up to a race track in the Honda while the other guy turns up in a lambo and racing as per the rules around that track. Then you get pulverised. Then you realise there is another race which you can enter where most of the cars are Kias from the 1990’s. your entry is not against the rules. The organiser lets you enter and rewards you even better for winning. Actually the organiser encourages you to enter. I think you need to realise this is not your game. Its Pixonic’s game. You are just one of the participants (at your own free will). They set the rules and the framework. People are fully entitled to play within that framework without recrimination or victimisation or harassment or being shamed (esp for something thats not against the rules). Full stop. No ifs, no buts. If you don’t like the framework, approach Pixonic. Tell them you want a balanced game. Express your opinions on this forum about the positive aspects of balanced games that is not P2W. Try and get Pix to change things. You are entitled to your rights to publicy criticise people in a reasonable manner and to a reasonable extent for actions that you do not agree with. But you are not entitled to publicly shaming and defaming people who act within the rules just because you do not agree with those rules. You have the wrong target mate.
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Post by Russel on Dec 10, 2017 19:14:35 GMT -5
WARNING: highly subjective personal opinion down here.
Full disclosure: I don't like "sealclubbing", but I do like "league tanking". I don't think "leaving" is doing harm to the game. If you get triggered by this please read long text below.
Car analogy is a really fine one.
In our country (Ukraine) I made a what can be called "social experiment" - I was simply obeying speed limit for a week. It's 60 km/h currently. I was overtaken by everyone, and I mean EVERYONE. Buses, pickup trucks, lorries, and stuff. Pretty often people were honking and flying a bird. Yes, I was doing ~60 at the right lane, not being the 「bum-bum hole」 who hogs left one, but still.
Oh, and five times I was overtaken by police, lights off, clearly not hurrying up to a crime scene. So, if the system is set up some way you are just standing in a people's way, and not being a knight in a shining armour.
Closer to our subject, though. I've done an experiment, posted it here on forum. I reported CLEARLY inappropriate name of a player and was checking every day for two weeks what was done. And nothing has been done. No ban, no name change.
Now even more than that, Everybody is talking about "tankers", but clearly nobody understand the meaning. Because what you describe is not a "tanker", but is a "sealclubber". Difference is like calling "man with a gun" a "killer".
To tank - is to drop leagues intentionally. I do that really often to be able to play some light bots or low-level stuff, or to squad with lower league players. However "sealclubbing" is bringing your best stuff to lowest leagues possible. Why this matters? Easy, if we can't agree on terminology what's the point of discussion?
And last but not least - what is a "sealclubber"? When I use my lvl9 stuff in Gold League- am I being a sealclubber? What if it's Noricum Jesse, Punisher Gareth, ECU Cossack and such? And who is a person who decides that?
I hear a lot of maxed Champs being matched against Diamond players, and they justify beating Diamond guys by "matchmaking made me do it". Really? So if somebody else aligned lower league players to a grinder and you just press the red button - you are doing everything right? I can't agree to this honestly.
Okay, what I am trying to say here.
1) Tanking and Sealclubbing (and leaving, too) are three completely different things. And Leaving has NOTHING to do with tanking\sealclubbing, because you can't move down the leagues in LPQ. 2) I think it's a shady business talking about "rightneous" of a P2W strategy, leaving maps you don't like, tanking to play lower leagues using superior skills or sealclubbing Bronze league with Mk2 12 stuff. 3) It is clear that Pix made the system this way deliberately, so by NOT sealclubbing you are NOT playing by the rules. And "not playing by the rules" also known as "cheating". 4) However sealclubbing is being a bad teammate. It's not really good to be a bad teammate, obviously. Same as using your teammates as shield, or ignoring beacons, or kill stealing, or playing OP bots and weapons like Shocktrain Haechi, because it ruins all the fun.
But in the end we are what we are, and we are free to pick our unique playstyle. I like playing light bots, and I will do that by tanking to corresponding league. Somebody like sealclubbing, and other guys like rocking Shocktrain Haechi. All of these is "according to rules" and we just need to learn to live with it. Who am I to judge, anyways?
Peace out.
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Post by Mechman-Mechout on Dec 10, 2017 19:24:35 GMT -5
I agree with much of your analysis. However, I disagree with your conclusion about not shaming ppl who pull this kind of thing. I'm also okay with shaming the whales. Donâ??t understand how you agree with much of it but disagree about shaming people. I really do not understand what rights or moral high ground you have for â??shamingâ? paying customers. Especially the ones that pay a lot. That is way beyond me TBH. Its like trying to shame every Ferrari or Lambo owner because you have lost a drag race at the red lights to a Lambo once upon a time while in your Honda civic. I was always pro-whale shaming, to a certain degree, not because they exploited a broken system to win as many games as unfairly as they could (making them diet tankers, in a way) but because through the wholesale consumption of Pixonic's products they have encouraged the company to not only fail to sufficiently nerf the offending content but to produce even more of it. There's a reason the game is as bad as it is, and while it would be nice to pin all the blame on Pixonic for their abominable greed (and they do share a huge portion of blame) the fact is they would never have grown this awful if someone wasn't encouraging and rewarding their efforts. The head of Pixonic is a criminal b@stard and should be recognized as such, but we should be doubly harsh upon the thoughtless, selfish players with more money than tact who helped set this sh1tshow in motion from the start.
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Post by Russel on Dec 10, 2017 19:26:58 GMT -5
Donâ??t understand how you agree with much of it but disagree about shaming people. I really do not understand what rights or moral high ground you have for â??shamingâ? paying customers. Especially the ones that pay a lot. That is way beyond me TBH. Its like trying to shame every Ferrari or Lambo owner because you have lost a drag race at the red lights to a Lambo once upon a time while in your Honda civic. I was always pro-whale shaming, to a certain degree, not because they exploited a broken system to win as many games as unfairly as they could (making them diet tankers, in a way) but because through the wholesale consumption of Pixonic's products they have encouraged the company to not only fail to sufficiently nerf the offending content but to produce even more of it. There's a reason the game is as bad as it is, and while it would be nice to pin all the blame on Pixonic for their abominable greed (and they do share a huge portion of blame) the fact is they would never have grown this awful if someone wasn't encouraging and rewarding their efforts. The head of Pixonic is a criminal b@stard and should be recognized as such, but we should be doubly harsh upon the thoughtless, selfish players with more money than tact who helped set this sh1tshow in motion from the start. While I agree with your POV about whales, it's technically head of Mail.ru we need to hate, because Pix now can't tie their own shoes without an order from their owners.
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Post by Mechman-Mechout on Dec 10, 2017 19:32:05 GMT -5
I was always pro-whale shaming, to a certain degree, not because they exploited a broken system to win as many games as unfairly as they could (making them diet tankers, in a way) but because through the wholesale consumption of Pixonic's products they have encouraged the company to not only fail to sufficiently nerf the offending content but to produce even more of it. There's a reason the game is as bad as it is, and while it would be nice to pin all the blame on Pixonic for their abominable greed (and they do share a huge portion of blame) the fact is they would never have grown this awful if someone wasn't encouraging and rewarding their efforts. The head of Pixonic is a criminal b@stard and should be recognized as such, but we should be doubly harsh upon the thoughtless, selfish players with more money than tact who helped set this sh1tshow in motion from the start. While I agree with your POV about whales, it's technical head of Mail.ru we need to hate, because Pix now can't tie their own shoes without an order from their owners. Again, they're a detestable person, but we shouldn't ignore the true perpetrators of this colossal cluster5uck.
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Post by cmdrperalta on Dec 10, 2017 19:36:13 GMT -5
WARNING: highly subjective personal opinion down here. 2) I think it's a shady business talking about "rightneous" of a P2W strategy, leaving maps you don't like, tanking to play lower leagues using superior skills or sealclubbing Bronze league with Mk2 12 stuff. 3) It is clear that Pix made the system this way deliberately, so by NOT sealclubbing you are NOT playing by the rules. And "not playing by the rules" also known as "cheating". Peace out. That's an absurd rationalization but 3) was kinda funny.
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Post by Russel on Dec 10, 2017 19:42:34 GMT -5
WARNING: highly subjective personal opinion down here. 2) I think it's a shady business talking about "rightneous" of a P2W strategy, leaving maps you don't like, tanking to play lower leagues using superior skills or sealclubbing Bronze league with Mk2 12 stuff. 3) It is clear that Pix made the system this way deliberately, so by NOT sealclubbing you are NOT playing by the rules. And "not playing by the rules" also known as "cheating". Peace out. That's an absurd rationalization but 3) was kinda funny. Thanks. It was not a "rationalization", though. And the logic is simple. Prior to leagues it was not possible to sealclub to such an extent. Then Pix made it possible. Then Pix ignored most of the "reporting" and "whining", and still have NOT posted ANY message about sealclubbing. Then Pix introduced Cashbots and Mk2 stuff so you might sealclub even in Champs league. Then they disallowed people to leave matches where they are being sealclubbed (LPQ with no rewards). So far official rules are: 1) Do not leave the battle. 2) Do not hack the game. Everything else is just a work of _SOME_ players imagination. Not the majority. Basically, it's just the wiki community who try to use "ethics" and "mutual fun" concept.
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Post by Anon O. Mous on Dec 10, 2017 19:58:27 GMT -5
Diamond League? Yikes I must be like lower than low, I am only Silver II. LOL Give it time. You'll be through Gold before you know it, then wish you were back down in Silver. I'm in Diamond I, and shutter at the thought of stepping up in to the pro's. Expert is my next step, which I think of like minor league baseball. You kind of get to see what it's like in the majors, but you haven't dived in to the deep end just yet.
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Post by T34 on Dec 10, 2017 20:05:35 GMT -5
Donâ??t understand how you agree with much of it but disagree about shaming people. I really do not understand what rights or moral high ground you have for â??shamingâ? paying customers. Especially the ones that pay a lot. That is way beyond me TBH. Its like trying to shame every Ferrari or Lambo owner because you have lost a drag race at the red lights to a Lambo once upon a time while in your Honda civic. I was always pro-whale shaming, to a certain degree, not because they exploited a broken system to win as many games as unfairly as they could (making them diet tankers, in a way) but because through the wholesale consumption of Pixonic's products they have encouraged the company to not only fail to sufficiently nerf the offending content but to produce even more of it. There's a reason the game is as bad as it is, and while it would be nice to pin all the blame on Pixonic for their abominable greed (and they do share a huge portion of blame) the fact is they would never have grown this awful if someone wasn't encouraging and rewarding their efforts. The head of Pixonic is a criminal b@stard and should be recognized as such, but we should be doubly harsh upon the thoughtless, selfish players with more money than tact who helped set this sh1tshow in motion from the start. I understand what you are saying but you still cant shame the blue whales. You can point out the error in their ways but shaming steps over the line. Gut wrenching, I don’t like it but Pix did it. They created an environment where many are catered for at the expense of others. As opposed to a competitive game. It’s a dog it dog world. And all it needs is a few people to buy in at the start and the rest will follow. Look at the event. Half of champions league is in bronze and silver (figuratively speaking). Mostly those who need a bulgie and shocktrains. Pix knows that. And what they do? they extend the event by offering a second chain with potentially OP stuff. So the clubbers will pick up easy OP gear and earn truckloads of resources and upgrade time reductions. But in reality what Pix is saying to the poor end of the higher ranked players is – Please stick around, here is your opportunity to grab your second dashbot and by now you should have collected enough componenets for 3 or 4 dashes. You hate the shocktrains? We give it to everyone now. You hated MK2, drop down and yo-yo and by grinding you can go a long way to compensate for it. I have been saying this for a long time. My tip is they are either milking the players and sunsetting the game or carefully managing the population size by adjusting incentives and the environment for sufficient number of players to remain and make the game viable. And in the mean time everyone has a big fat carrot in front of their nose and being strung along. But what ever they are doing they are doing it well in the shorter term as evidenced by their revenue and ranking.
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Post by T34 on Dec 10, 2017 20:21:08 GMT -5
That's an absurd rationalization but 3) was kinda funny. Thanks. It was not a "rationalization", though. And the logic is simple. Prior to leagues it was not possible to sealclub to such an extent. Then Pix made it possible. Then Pix ignored most of the "reporting" and "whining", and still have NOT posted ANY message about sealclubbing. Then Pix introduced Cashbots and Mk2 stuff so you might sealclub even in Champs league. Then they disallowed people to leave matches where they are being sealclubbed (LPQ with no rewards). So far official rules are: 1) Do not leave the battle. 2) Do not hack the game. Everything else is just a work of _SOME_ players imagination. Not the majority. Basically, it's just the wiki community who try to use "ethics" and "mutual fun" concept. Very well said Russel. If I may add; - There were more changes implement that aided tanking/clubbing during the recent past like the changing of the points system something like three times to make dropping leagues easier. Remember the full squad drops/tanks? I haven’t seen one in ages. So easy now that no one bothers to organise up for tanking groups. - You forgot about the multi hanger initiative ;-) that’s a big one. - “Then they disallowed people to leave matches where they are being sealclubbed (LPQ with no rewards).” This is BRILLIANT!!!! I have never thought of the threat of the LQ in this way. And you know what…… if they can rig every gambling mechanism they can surely design a system to stop people from leaving a match when they are being clubbed. Lets face it. Pro tankers, clubbers do not get caught up in the LQ. So it can only be for the noobs. And when will a noob eject? Mostly when they are being thrashed. Its not the map skipping- “Everything else is just a work of _SOME_ players imagination. Not the majority. Basically, it's just the wiki community who try to use "ethics" and "mutual fun" concept.” SPOT ON!
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Post by Mechman-Mechout on Dec 10, 2017 20:24:46 GMT -5
I was always pro-whale shaming, to a certain degree, not because they exploited a broken system to win as many games as unfairly as they could (making them diet tankers, in a way) but because through the wholesale consumption of Pixonic's products they have encouraged the company to not only fail to sufficiently nerf the offending content but to produce even more of it. There's a reason the game is as bad as it is, and while it would be nice to pin all the blame on Pixonic for their abominable greed (and they do share a huge portion of blame) the fact is they would never have grown this awful if someone wasn't encouraging and rewarding their efforts. The head of Pixonic is a criminal b@stard and should be recognized as such, but we should be doubly harsh upon the thoughtless, selfish players with more money than tact who helped set this sh1tshow in motion from the start. I understand what you are saying but you still cant shame the blue whales. You can point out the error in their ways but shaming steps over the line. Gut wrenching, I don’t like it but Pix did it. They created an environment where many are catered for at the expense of others. As opposed to a competitive game. It’s a dog it dog world. And all it needs is a few people to buy in at the start and the rest will follow. Look at the event. Half of champions league is in bronze and silver (figuratively speaking). Mostly those who need a bulgie and shocktrains. Pix knows that. And what they do? they extend the event by offering a second chain with potentially OP stuff. So the clubbers will pick up easy OP gear and earn truckloads of resources and upgrade time reductions. But in reality what Pix is saying to the poor end of the higher ranked players is – Please stick around, here is your opportunity to grab your second dashbot and by now you should have collected enough componenets for 3 or 4 dashes. You hate the shocktrains? We give it to everyone now. You hated MK2, drop down and yo-yo and by grinding you can go a long way to compensate for it. I have been saying this for a long time. My tip is they are either milking the players and sunsetting the game or carefully managing the population size by adjusting incentives and the environment for sufficient number of players to remain and make the game viable. And in the mean time everyone has a big fat carrot in front of their nose and being strung along. But what ever they are doing they are doing it well in the shorter term as evidenced by their revenue and ranking. The majority of your response doesn't offer any counter-points to mine, but still contains a number of good thoughts on the state of the game.
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