|
Post by T34 on Dec 7, 2017 19:43:40 GMT -5
Talking about dash removal is pointless as is removing a hard point. I really cant see that happening. The best way to balance the haechi (nerf or buf) IMO is to vary the strength and regen ability of the shield.
Say for instance you take the shield off completely than suddenly the bulgie is the best of the best. Even the Kumi will probably be better in one on ones. The other thing that can be considered is the size of the bot. its rather small compared to the kumi and bulgie. And finally when it drops weapons after being shot. Pix loves going for the secret weapon drop buff/nerf. Remember the fury and the Griff as they started to drop weapons at 50K HP or something around there.
|
|
|
Post by moody on Dec 7, 2017 20:57:17 GMT -5
Talking about dash removal is pointless as is removing a hard point. I really cant see that happening. The best way to balance the haechi (nerf or buf) IMO is to vary the strength and regen ability of the shield. Say for instance you take the shield off completely than suddenly the bulgie is the best of the best. Even the Kumi will probably be better in one on ones. The other thing that can be considered is the size of the bot. its rather small compared to the kumi and bulgie. And finally when it drops weapons after being shot. Pix loves going for the secret weapon drop buff/nerf. Remember the fury and the Griff as they started to drop weapons at 50K HP or something around there. Part of the reason the boa was called the toaster aside from its shape was that it has a tendency to pop off weapons at the drop of a hat. A Patton still has that issue. I think dash regen timing and energy shield strength and regen would both do enough to balance this bot without causing as horrible a backlash as redisigning hardpoints or making a single dash.
|
|
|
Post by danny on Dec 8, 2017 12:11:07 GMT -5
I'm not sure you realize it but you have just said something that is forbidden in this forum. This forum does not tolerate anyone saying anything that goes against the officially held position. But what is the official position, you ask. It's the collective belief of 95% of the forumites. Anytime a certain belief is held by 95% or more of the forumites, it gets stamped as being the official position and this belief will be rigorously defended and actively propagated in order that it might reach 100% consensus. Anyone who vocalizes anything that runs contrary to the official position will be persecuted mercilessly. There is a secret cadre of forumites called Inquisitors (no, not the bot) who will hunt you down and relentlessly break your self-esteem by making you question your intelligence, your humanity and even your school. These Inquisitors will not argue against the points you raised with facts, after all they have little grasp of the facts themselves; they just want you to toe the official party line. But they are trained specifically to undermine your self-confidence and your identity as an individual. So I urge you to repent, confess your sins and adopt the official position that the Haechi is inarguably OP and is only used by ppl who possess no game skills and can only make up for that lack by opening their wallets. Got it? Good. Now let's hope none of the Inquisitors have yet detected your scent. Just to be sure, go dip yourself in the river 3 times. Danny, this is the internet, u need thicker skin. This isn’t about dogmatism. What it is about is experience. And humility to accept that if you disagree with someone much more experienced on a given subject than you, you are statistically much more likely to be wrong than right. I have no idea what you do for a living, but I’m certain that whatever that is, you know much more about that subject than me, even if I may have dabbled in it. Also, the straw man argument you use that Haechi is only used by people without game skills is bs. The vast majority of the very best players currently in game run 3-5 Haechis. Thicker skin? Thicker skin for what? I was having fun with a fellow forumite and he got the intended humor. Obviously you don't. Disagree with someone about what? I told you in an earlier post (which I believe you "liked") that I shared your position. I believe that the game is P2W and that the Haechi is OP. So what do I disagree with you about? I only took up the opposing position because you misrepresented that position by giving it lame arguments. I wanted to engage you and others in an intellectual debate so that we could explore the twin issues of P2W games and OP game items. Obviously you care little about intellectual debates and more about people shouting, "Hear, hear!" to your expert, unassailable opinions. I was a mechanical engineer in power stations for almost 30 years. When someone who has never seen the inside of a power plant tells me that a nuclear power plant is unsafe and unenvironmental, it never enters my mind to tell him that he should develop humility before Almighty Me. Instead, I engage him in an academic debate not because I want to show him that he is stupid and ignorant, but because I want to see if there is something I can learn from him and perhaps he might learn something from me in return. A fact-finding debate is a lot of fun if you can keep it objective, without making personal attacks, without insulting and demeaning the other guy and if you can just develop the humility to treat the other guy as your equal, even if he is not. You should try it yourself.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 13:03:09 GMT -5
Danny, this is the internet, u need thicker skin. This isn’t about dogmatism. What it is about is experience. And humility to accept that if you disagree with someone much more experienced on a given subject than you, you are statistically much more likely to be wrong than right. I have no idea what you do for a living, but I’m certain that whatever that is, you know much more about that subject than me, even if I may have dabbled in it. Also, the straw man argument you use that Haechi is only used by people without game skills is bs. The vast majority of the very best players currently in game run 3-5 Haechis. Thicker skin? Thicker skin for what? I was having fun with a fellow forumite and he got the intended humor. Obviously you don't. Disagree with someone about what? I told you in an earlier post (which I believe you "liked") that I shared your position. I believe that the game is P2W and that the Haechi is OP. So what do I disagree with you about? I only took up the opposing position because you misrepresented that position by giving it lame arguments. I wanted to engage you and others in an intellectual debate so that we could explore the twin issues of P2W games and OP game items. Obviously you care little about intellectual debates and more about people shouting, "Hear, hear!" to your expert, unassailable opinions. I was a mechanical engineer in power stations for almost 30 years. When someone who has never seen the inside of a power plant tells me that a nuclear power plant is unsafe and unenvironmental, it never enters my mind to tell him that he should develop humility before Almighty Me. Instead, I engage him in an academic debate not because I want to show him that he is stupid and ignorant, but because I want to see if there is something I can learn from him and perhaps he might learn something from me in return. A fact-finding debate is a lot of fun if you can keep it objective, without making personal attacks, without insulting and demeaning the other guy and if you can just develop the humility to treat the other guy as your equal, even if he is not. You should try it yourself. You want to have an intellectual debate about what exactly? The reason haechi is op is glaringly obvious and have been stated time and time again. The reason the game is considered p2w is because a full haechi hangar (and shocktrains) are for paying customers only. The arguments to say this is wrong... aren’t arguments but either “I kill haechis” or “my haechi sux”. There aren’t any opposing schools of thought, there is no theoretical framework within which we can have an intellectual debate. There are only a lot of people claiming one thing and a few, mostly inexperienced, claiming otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by hon_shu on Dec 8, 2017 14:12:11 GMT -5
Talking about dash removal is pointless as is removing a hard point. I really cant see that happening. The best way to balance the haechi (nerf or buf) IMO is to vary the strength and regen ability of the shield. Say for instance you take the shield off completely than suddenly the bulgie is the best of the best. Even the Kumi will probably be better in one on ones. The other thing that can be considered is the size of the bot. its rather small compared to the kumi and bulgie. And finally when it drops weapons after being shot. Pix loves going for the secret weapon drop buff/nerf. Remember the fury and the Griff as they started to drop weapons at 50K HP or something around there. Both HP and Shield HP should be reduced by 10%. This would bring Haechi a little bit closer to the Carnage. Or give the Carnage a double Rush and 20% more HP
|
|
|
Post by Replicant on Dec 8, 2017 14:55:26 GMT -5
Talking about dash removal is pointless as is removing a hard point. I really cant see that happening. The best way to balance the haechi (nerf or buf) IMO is to vary the strength and regen ability of the shield. Say for instance you take the shield off completely than suddenly the bulgie is the best of the best. Even the Kumi will probably be better in one on ones. The other thing that can be considered is the size of the bot. its rather small compared to the kumi and bulgie. And finally when it drops weapons after being shot. Pix loves going for the secret weapon drop buff/nerf. Remember the fury and the Griff as they started to drop weapons at 50K HP or something around there. Both HP and Shield HP should be reduced by 10%. This would bring Haechi a little bit closer to the Carnage. Or give the Carnage a double Rush and 20% more HP As much as I'd love to play a Double Rush Carnage... But a 10% Shield nerf wouldn't effect a Haechi's ability to retreat from an opponent without taking permanent damage in any appreciable way. 7,000 Shield health is less than half a second worth of damage from a triple-Orkan volley. For the nerf to have a meaningful impact, the Shield would have to be small enough that the Haechi actually risks counter-fire. Reduce the shield enough to do that, and Haechi may as well not have a shield. I agree with T34 in that if you functionally remove the shield from Haechi, the Bulg and the Kumi take its place. At the extreme, Bot Health/Shields don't matter if you don't get hit in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by T34 on Dec 8, 2017 15:03:45 GMT -5
Talking about dash removal is pointless as is removing a hard point. I really cant see that happening. The best way to balance the haechi (nerf or buf) IMO is to vary the strength and regen ability of the shield. Say for instance you take the shield off completely than suddenly the bulgie is the best of the best. Even the Kumi will probably be better in one on ones. The other thing that can be considered is the size of the bot. its rather small compared to the kumi and bulgie. And finally when it drops weapons after being shot. Pix loves going for the secret weapon drop buff/nerf. Remember the fury and the Griff as they started to drop weapons at 50K HP or something around there. Both HP and Shield HP should be reduced by 10%. This would bring Haechi a little bit closer to the Carnage. Or give the Carnage a double Rush and 20% more HP I think it is important to bear in mind the haechi is not being balanced against the carnage or any of the older bots at this stage. It is balanced against the new meta bots. If so, then a different picture arises.
|
|
|
Post by The VVatcher on Dec 8, 2017 15:53:20 GMT -5
If it dashed in then dashed out, a Griffin can jump in on it to counter but the Haechi durability plus firepower will take care of that Griffin when it lands; it’s great at trading punches. The hp and shield contribute heavily to that. I believe you can nerf outside of the double dash to balance it while relatively staying the best bot in the game.
|
|
|
Post by Nexsan on Dec 8, 2017 18:25:24 GMT -5
I would argue that the ability to store two dashes is not as tangible as something like, say, removing a hardpoint. I am not against Pixonic removing that part of the ability for Dash bots.
|
|
|
Post by thisnameistak on Dec 8, 2017 18:31:50 GMT -5
Having a haechi myself, I do feel the problem lies with the two dash mechanic. That, and the inclusion of a huge heath pool and fire power make the bot a very tough customer for most players.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 18:42:05 GMT -5
I am trying a new strategy to contain the beasts, Whales, etc. My hanger is mostly very powerful legacy setups. I equip them with mostly Tarans. I try to find the Whale that I think will unbalance my game, and get 1.5M. Then I stalk him, and hunt him down. To me, this is a multiplier effect so I sacrifice some of my dmg and help my team out more. Seems to be having at least some effect.
It does seem to be helping and some of the Experts on my team that were getting absurdly low scores for their gear (most Experts are at 11/11 now), can now flourish. I can also contain the Champion so that his dmg score is far below his avg dmg.
It doesn't take long for a L10/12 Rhino or Griffin to take down MK2 Haechi or Bulgogi.
The problem is picking the best player on the other side, and hoping that there aren't multiple. I think this works great if you can take out at least 3 of his bots quickly. But then, they notice me and start hunting me.
|
|
|
Post by rollinfknpower on Dec 8, 2017 21:35:59 GMT -5
I think the basic setup of haechi is on point. That is what defines the bot. I believe it should have two dashes, three hardpoints, all of the bells and whistles that make it what it is. With that said, the dash timer is way! Way! Too fast!!! It should be more along the lines of Griffins jump cool down.
It's a better ability that is almost constantly available. Slow down that cool down and then the whole world of haechi changes. They have to think before they just go dashing in.
They (and other dash bots) are the only ones that have a double ability. Why is the cool down so fast? That's what makes them OP
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 23:06:36 GMT -5
I think the basic setup of haechi is on point. That is what defines the bot. I believe it should have two dashes, three hardpoints, all of the bells and whistles that make it what it is. With that said, the dash timer is way! Way! Too fast!!! It should be more along the lines of Griffins jump cool down. It's a better ability that is almost constantly available. Slow down that cool down and then the whole world of haechi changes. They have to think before they just go dashing in. They (and other dash bots) are the only ones that have a double ability. Why is the cool down so fast? That's what makes them OP Yea, you can't really take out the 2nd dash ability. What kinda ability would it be if they charge in, then wait to die. That's like going old school, Rhino 1-way train. The 2 dashes give it good speed so it can cover ground. That gives it first dibs on reds, so more dmg. I hate when my slow Griffin is walking to a battle from spawn like on Dead City, and it's over by the time I get there. They're much easier to take out once you go full plasma. Then put in Griffins, Galahads, Lancelots, etc. I even put in my Rhino and Thunder on Lancelot so I could deal heavy dmg and make better trades should they decide to trade dmg with me.
|
|
|
Post by moody on Dec 10, 2017 20:48:48 GMT -5
Had a game the other day, squading with a couple from the aurora clan. Was ok but not great. Pulled out the orkan haechi as last bot - got top damage, top beacons, 10 kills and 850k damage.
I was sorry for bringing out the cash bot at the end of the game. It totally outclassed everything else on the field.
|
|