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Post by seanh on Nov 21, 2017 8:12:58 GMT -5
I think the most salient point to take from it all is around the transition from what was to what will be and the impact on those caught in that transition.
This was a game where you could pay to advance more quickly through the ranks, not win necessarily, but certainly speed progress to a maxed meta hanger. One that was accessible free albeit after a year plus grind.
With the current speed of release and the mechanisms for acquiring new content it is very much a case of pay a considerable about to have a maxed meta hanger, that is certainly not accessible in any real way free of charge. And given the OP nature of the new content it is very much pay to be competitive at the top end of the spectrum.
There will in the future (assuming the game has a future) be a two tear game, f2p having a realistic prospect of getting to a certain tear. For example I would imagine that a f2p player starting today has virtually no chance of getting to champs league, utter Beasts accepted. If you want to play at that level then you have to pay.
Fundamentally I don’t have a problem with that. But there are two element of this that I think are unfair. Firstly the MM mixes tiers and should it continue to do so in the same manner it will often be a case of the player with the bigger check book clubbing non paying players as that gap continues to widen.
The second issue being the transition. People who had gotten to a high tier in the old meta and now in a fairly unfortunate position. They do not have to pay to win, they have to pay to stay. They either need to get the new content or face the reality of being pushed back down in favour of the paying players. That is in my opinion unfair and difficult to swallow.
Either way I think the OP’s point is valid, neither f2p not ‘whales’ are the root cause of the problem. The developer has made a decision to go down a certain road. The motivations and reasoning for what they are doing what they are doing are somewhat irrelevant.
It is what it is and we each have to figure out how we as players deal with that. Whether to pay, whether to just play, it’s a personal decision. I certainly don’t think blaming each other or marginalising groups of legitimate payers helps anything. I do think tanking is a real problem. I can accept a top tier champs players having a maxed meta hanger, even if it did cost thousands, it is a harder pill to swallow when you find them in mid gold.
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Post by javelinaut717 on Nov 21, 2017 8:21:10 GMT -5
..SO many blame the Whales for the game going to a p2w type of game.. Heck, I have been there.. The last game I got really into was Alpha-Wars by Studio Hoppe.. I was spending 200-400 bucks a month over a period of 2-years.. I was one of the top players.. I worked my azz off to get there.. played countless hours Spent a lot of money to get what I wanted to play the way I wanted to play.. It was my money, my enjoyment, my business... I really did not care if anyone had an issue with it.. THEN I got a new GF, a New truck.. that takes about a grand a month out of my income.. now I am much tighter strapped and cannot afford to play like that anymore.. Many target the player instead of the developer.. PIXONIC has decided to cater to those with deep pockets.. Those with deep pockets of course want the best, the baddest and the biggest.. Its human nature.. to want to win, to want to be the best, to be able to kick azz all over the place.. It is NOT those with money that cause the issues... It is them enjoying their money, their disposable income in a way they feel like spending it.. I begrudge no one for that.. I mean, that is why we work out butts off every day... To be able to enjoy it.. Some enjoy it by travelling, some by gaming.. MAYBE blame the "tankers", the "leavers" and those others that take advantage of a game with flaws that benefit them...... maybe... but in the end.. it is PIXONIC that makes the rules, they provide the game, the units, the monetary system within the game.. the economic world we play in.. they are the ones fully accountable for your game play.. for the advantages those that "Tank" have.. for the advantages those with big bucks have.. I mean rant on if you need to..but maybe target those responsible.. not those that take advantage of the system that we all play in.. On the test server.. seems like everyone paints their bots.. yet so many vilify those on the live server that do that.. To me, that is just those that wish they had the extra bucks to do the same.. Kind of hypocritical to paint your stuff on the test server where it costs nothing, and then vilify those that do it on the live server.. Just seems many times, that many judge and hate on those with money, spending it in a way that is their personal business and in a way that brings enjoyment to their lives.. Instead of blaming everyone /everything else.. blame the one entity that is the only one to blame.. and that is PIX.. Just my POV... AS I enter back into Diamond.. I don't let anyone steal my joy from me in the game.. If those with the cash start beating on me with Dash's.. there is always Artillery.. the poor mans counter... Just be good at it.. and you will frustrate those with dash's all day long.. After all.. it is a tool that was buffed a few times and is a valid counter measure.. In the end...If my relationship with the GF goes bad and I get my truck paid off... my money will free up.. ya never know where I may spend it..  Cheers.. the question is, are they killer whaler or a blue whaler? |
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Post by ༒ƜƦƛƖƬӇ༒ on Nov 21, 2017 11:08:06 GMT -5
Look up "Total Annihilation " I got that game as a gift for Christmas back in 1999.. There is STILL a cult of us that play it and develop units for it.. It costs 56 bucks back in 1999... And I totally agree that the game space is ruined.. People use it more for social purposes than anything else.. I cannot blame game developers, as they are jumping in on the band wagon and grabbing their share of the money floating around.. its the new "Gold Rush" To this day though... I still play TA, always will.. I still develop units and mods for the game.. and probably always will, since it keeps my coding skills sharp, even if I only write units and mods for myself to use.. it is still a blast.. in the end, I will go back to that game.. TA is still for sale, on GOG --- and it was going to be my next game bought  When and if you buy it, hit me up and I will dropbox a ton of mods and extra units for it.. |
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Post by U Camp = I Camp on Nov 21, 2017 11:17:37 GMT -5
..SO many blame the Whales for the game going to a p2w type of game.. Heck, I have been there.. The last game I got really into was Alpha-Wars by Studio Hoppe.. I was spending 200-400 bucks a month over a period of 2-years.. I was one of the top players.. I worked my azz off to get there.. played countless hours Spent a lot of money to get what I wanted to play the way I wanted to play.. It was my money, my enjoyment, my business... I really did not care if anyone had an issue with it.. THEN I got a new GF, a New truck.. that takes about a grand a month out of my income.. now I am much tighter strapped and cannot afford to play like that anymore.. Many target the player instead of the developer.. PIXONIC has decided to cater to those with deep pockets.. Those with deep pockets of course want the best, the baddest and the biggest.. Its human nature.. to want to win, to want to be the best, to be able to kick azz all over the place.. It is NOT those with money that cause the issues... It is them enjoying their money, their disposable income in a way they feel like spending it.. I begrudge no one for that.. I mean, that is why we work out butts off every day... To be able to enjoy it.. Some enjoy it by travelling, some by gaming.. MAYBE blame the "tankers", the "leavers" and those others that take advantage of a game with flaws that benefit them...... maybe... but in the end.. it is PIXONIC that makes the rules, they provide the game, the units, the monetary system within the game.. the economic world we play in.. they are the ones fully accountable for your game play.. for the advantages those that "Tank" have.. for the advantages those with big bucks have.. I mean rant on if you need to..but maybe target those responsible.. not those that take advantage of the system that we all play in.. On the test server.. seems like everyone paints their bots.. yet so many vilify those on the live server that do that.. To me, that is just those that wish they had the extra bucks to do the same.. Kind of hypocritical to paint your stuff on the test server where it costs nothing, and then vilify those that do it on the live server.. Just seems many times, that many judge and hate on those with money, spending it in a way that is their personal business and in a way that brings enjoyment to their lives.. Instead of blaming everyone /everything else.. blame the one entity that is the only one to blame.. and that is PIX.. Just my POV... AS I enter back into Diamond.. I don't let anyone steal my joy from me in the game.. If those with the cash start beating on me with Dash's.. there is always Artillery.. the poor mans counter... Just be good at it.. and you will frustrate those with dash's all day long.. After all.. it is a tool that was buffed a few times and is a valid counter measure.. In the end...If my relationship with the GF goes bad and I get my truck paid off... my money will free up.. ya never know where I may spend it.. Cheers.. Just like real life. Jealousy makes people do and say some really weird ?poo-poo? sometimes. |
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Post by U Camp = I Camp on Nov 21, 2017 11:23:22 GMT -5
Instead of blaming everyone /everything else.. blame the one entity that is the only one to blame.. and that is PIX.. Not even sure I'd do this. Sure I'm disappointed in some of their actions, maybe even upset. But from a business/financial perspective, makes complete freak'n sense to me, I TOTALLY get it. Any folks that can't handle it should probably find another game. Buckle Up Buttercups, It Is What It is. |
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Post by krebby on Nov 21, 2017 11:32:20 GMT -5
Instead of blaming everyone /everything else.. blame the one entity that is the only one to blame.. and that is PIX.. Not even sure I'd do this. Sure I'm disappointed in some of their actions, maybe even upset. But from a business/financial perspective, makes complete freak'n sense to me, I TOTALLY get it. Any folks that can't handle it should probably find another game. Buckle Up Buttercups, It Is What It is. So you don't believe Pixonic is even capable of changing course to a more sustainable path? Wow, that's even more cynical than me! In that case, I truly pity those who spent big money on this game. Pixonic's best/most loyal customers are the ones who will be most harmed by its unsustainable business practices. |
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Post by blackhand7 on Nov 21, 2017 11:55:26 GMT -5
"The problem with mobile
You see, we have a problem in the mobile gaming sector, thanks to you. You would rather buy a pumpkin spice latte a few times a week and enjoy it for a few minutes than buy a game that you can play as long as you would like. In order for creative games to be made, there needs to be a major culture shift. We need to be willing to spend a few dollars on a quality app, rather than for a few extra lives or other in-game purchases. Being a mobile game developer for four years has made me realize a lot of things that are wrong with the market. First, only certain games can bring in money for developers. Second, only certain types of players will find it easy to find games suitable for them. Third, classical conditioning makes a lot of players feel entitled to have everything for free and punish developers for asking money...." Read the rest...the guy nails it. www.polygon.com/2015/10/19/9567017/the-mobile-games-market-is-an-absolute-mess-thanks-to-you Sadly, the problem is not mobile games only. Some PC gaming companies have you pay a premium for the game, then want you to buy in-game content on top of that if you want the "really cool stuff"...(*cough*, *cough*, EA, *cough*). It is a disturbing trend period. Some gaming companies are just getting downright greedy these days. |
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Post by Domino on Nov 21, 2017 13:17:14 GMT -5
Just like real life. Jealousy makes people do and say some really weird ?poo-poo? sometimes. Who said anything about Jealousy? Keep the playing field balanced and you can buy all the K-Bots and shocktrains you like. But when you go down against a F2P player, know it his skills that outperformed yours, that's all it should boil down to. That is gone, that is what's wrong with the game, now you can beat your opponent because Cashbots have every single advantage except a 1 hit insta-kill (Shocktrain is very very close to that). That's not jealousy, that's called sportsmanlike competition. Reminds me of deflategate. Did the Patriots win because of it? We'll never know if it was the raw talent or the ball advantage that won the championship (ok they got creamed but it's still a point) |
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Post by ᎶƦ℮℮ƊᎽ ƤΛƝƊΛ on Nov 21, 2017 13:54:03 GMT -5
The players are not the reason for the freemium state of the mobile gaming market. Most consumers are willing to spend a few dollars on quality apps. A few dollars per download isn't very lucrative though, and when mobile gaming first became a thing, the technology wasn't progressive enough to be able to develop anything worth more than a few dollars. So the freemium solution emerged. Give people the app for free and then exploit human nature to turn larger profits.
Now that the technology is far enough along that they can develop a complete and satisfying gaming experience, they could easily start charging $20-30 for the game, provide the entire game with updates for a year, and then release a new, better game each year. Or even things like what War Robots was doing, an effective subscription service with VIP. That was basically $9.99 per month from most serious and active players. Sometimes even more for people with multiple active accounts.
But the developers aren't willing to settle with sustainable business models. They see cash grab opportunities and jump at them, not caring about the quality of their product, but only about the quantity of output. The problem now is the players(mostly the whales) are still rewarding the developers for these practices. For Picnic, 5,000 whales paying $1-2k every couple months for a new overpowered hangar is more profitable than 50,000 active players paying $10 a month for VIP. One scenario creates a far superior product for the players, but the other scenario creates less expense and more short term revenue for the developer. Key word being short term, as most freemium games have short life spans.
We've also reached a point of no return, as non-mobile gaming companies are embracing the same practices. Except they are charging you $60+ up front for 10% of a game. All stemming from the practices of mobile game developers and the fact that whales keep them successful. Sadly, this is what we are stuck with until whales stop paying and the gaming bubble crashes. But as long as whales still pay, we will still get 「dookie」ty games with 「dookie」ty treatment to the majority of gamers.
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Post by grendelsbot on Nov 21, 2017 13:55:09 GMT -5
Pix is doing what any smart business would do. They know people will gladly pay hundreds of dollars to get ahead in a game or get things others can't get or will take longer to get. And honestly some people don't have the time. Like events. Those are a grind and I 100% can see why most people cannot do them. So I don't blame people, if they have the money, just buying the stuff they wanna use.
If Pix makes it impossible for others to get those items then Pix is at fault. But it is 100% possible to get items via components.
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Post by ༒ƜƦƛƖƬӇ༒ on Nov 21, 2017 19:25:27 GMT -5
The players are not the reason for the freemium state of the mobile gaming market. Most consumers are willing to spend a few dollars on quality apps. A few dollars per download isn't very lucrative though, and when mobile gaming first became a thing, the technology wasn't progressive enough to be able to develop anything worth more than a few dollars. So the freemium solution emerged. Give people the app for free and then exploit human nature to turn larger profits. Now that the technology is far enough along that they can develop a complete and satisfying gaming experience, they could easily start charging $20-30 for the game, provide the entire game with updates for a year, and then release a new, better game each year. Or even things like what War Robots was doing, an effective subscription service with VIP. That was basically $9.99 per month from most serious and active players. Sometimes even more for people with multiple active accounts. But the developers aren't willing to settle with sustainable business models. They see cash grab opportunities and jump at them, not caring about the quality of their product, but only about the quantity of output. The problem now is the players(mostly the whales) are still rewarding the developers for these practices. For Picnic, 5,000 whales paying $1-2k every couple months for a new overpowered hangar is more profitable than 50,000 active players paying $10 a month for VIP. One scenario creates a far superior product for the players, but the other scenario creates less expense and more short term revenue for the developer. Key word being short term, as most freemium games have short life spans. We've also reached a point of no return, as non-mobile gaming companies are embracing the same practices. Except they are charging you $60+ up front for 10% of a game. All stemming from the practices of mobile game developers and the fact that whales keep them successful. Sadly, this is what we are stuck with until whales stop paying and the gaming bubble crashes. But as long as whales still pay, we will still get ?poo-poo?ty games with ?poo-poo?ty treatment to the majority of gamers. Ummm the consumers are the ones spending the cash, so the consumer's a a whole are what drives the markets and what the markets develop, what they bear in price points.. Because ppl cannot help themselves and buy into the various schemes Publishers and Developers .. EA, PIX and many others will always take advantage of what the market/consumer demand is.. If there is a bunch of guppy's feeding that market place.. then that is NOT the fault of the companies that they take advantage of it.. CONSUMERS need to restrain themselves PIXONIC is the drug.. YOU all decide if you are going to partake or not... If you stop using the drug, the company will fail.. |
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Post by ᎶƦ℮℮ƊᎽ ƤΛƝƊΛ on Nov 21, 2017 20:38:27 GMT -5
The players are not the reason for the freemium state of the mobile gaming market. Most consumers are willing to spend a few dollars on quality apps. A few dollars per download isn't very lucrative though, and when mobile gaming first became a thing, the technology wasn't progressive enough to be able to develop anything worth more than a few dollars. So the freemium solution emerged. Give people the app for free and then exploit human nature to turn larger profits. Now that the technology is far enough along that they can develop a complete and satisfying gaming experience, they could easily start charging $20-30 for the game, provide the entire game with updates for a year, and then release a new, better game each year. Or even things like what War Robots was doing, an effective subscription service with VIP. That was basically $9.99 per month from most serious and active players. Sometimes even more for people with multiple active accounts. But the developers aren't willing to settle with sustainable business models. They see cash grab opportunities and jump at them, not caring about the quality of their product, but only about the quantity of output. The problem now is the players(mostly the whales) are still rewarding the developers for these practices. For Picnic, 5,000 whales paying $1-2k every couple months for a new overpowered hangar is more profitable than 50,000 active players paying $10 a month for VIP. One scenario creates a far superior product for the players, but the other scenario creates less expense and more short term revenue for the developer. Key word being short term, as most freemium games have short life spans. We've also reached a point of no return, as non-mobile gaming companies are embracing the same practices. Except they are charging you $60+ up front for 10% of a game. All stemming from the practices of mobile game developers and the fact that whales keep them successful. Sadly, this is what we are stuck with until whales stop paying and the gaming bubble crashes. But as long as whales still pay, we will still get ?poo-poo?ty games with ?poo-poo?ty treatment to the majority of gamers. Ummm the consumers are the ones spending the cash, so the consumer's a a whole are what drives the markets and what the markets develop, what they bear in price points.. Because ppl cannot help themselves and buy into the various schemes Publishers and Developers .. EA, PIX and many others will always take advantage of what the market/consumer demand is.. If there is a bunch of guppy's feeding that market place.. then that is NOT the fault of the companies that they take advantage of it.. CONSUMERS need to restrain themselves PIXONIC is the drug.. YOU all decide if you are going to partake or not... If you stop using the drug, the company will fail.. Seems as though your reading comprehension is lacking, or you spot read the post. Or responded to the wrong one. |
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Post by BLYTHE on Nov 21, 2017 21:21:37 GMT -5
Yup, forty years from now, I'll be sitting by the fire with the grandchildren, and I'm sure they'll all be entranced by stories of my epic War Robots battles and other virtual experiences that some may call ephemeral, intangible, and--how dare they say!--irrelevant to life.
I can't pretend to enjoy losing to a person who hasn't played the game nearly as long as I have but wins because of OP equipment. But accusing non-whales of "jealousy" is plain silly when the sentiment (mine at least) is actually closer to bafflement. Baffled that so many live hand to mouth and that the most rudimentary additions to their lives is enough to turn their finances upside-down and yet continue to spends hundreds if not thousands of dollars on a game. But hey, it's your money; do with it what you wish.
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