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Post by Koalabear on Nov 20, 2017 9:12:48 GMT -5
Ok, I've been feeling really underwhelmed lately with my one itty bitty scourge. I've actually stopped using it now. It just doesn't have the oomph that I'm looking for in my play style. I'm an orkan centric guy. I'm starting to run into embers more and more these days. I'm in D2. So, I've been playing around with a build in my head: Golem (invest in the time and silver and gold to give it the Mk2 treatment), and then load it with an ember, taran and magnum. Anyway, what do you all think? Should I keep my original plan and keep grinding for a second and eventual third scourge? Or switch my focus?
At this point, I think I'd prefer weapons over bots. While I'd love a Kumiho and/or a Haechi, I do like my current fast bot hangar of 3 Rogs, a Bulg and variable 5th slot of whatever build I feel like playing. I already have a line up ready for the eventual second hangar release and am saving my gold for that. My 2nd hangar will likely be mid to long range builds, led by my zeus Fury and various builds with hydras, RDB, trebs and gekkos.
I've been reading other people's experiences about the scourge and I feel that I'm siding with the nay sayers. I'm just not the patient "whittle them down" kind of player. I'm more the get in, unload and duck and hide kind of player, and I think a Mk2 Golem with ember would fit that profile. If I go this route, I know it'll take a while, that's why I wanted to ask for opinions before committing the time to do it.
Thoughts?
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Post by ezekielcrow on Nov 20, 2017 9:58:32 GMT -5
Scourge is good but theyre best optimized with blue kbots. I think an ember would go well with the set up you have in mind.
That said...Looking at your 3 rogs though, the shocktrains ARE mighty tempting. I just finished earning one and mounted it on the rog straightaway. They are quite fun. You can jump and fire off a shot from the smallest gaps in cover. Theyre also mighty fun when hanging on ledges that offer cover and squeezing off a few shots.
I wish theyd ditch the chain effect though.
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Post by mechtout on Nov 20, 2017 10:14:26 GMT -5
Shocktrain Rog might be interesting
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Post by Koalabear on Nov 20, 2017 11:42:36 GMT -5
Hmm, hadn't really thought about a ShockRog... I usually like to get in close and dirty with an orkan Rog. That's part of why I'd wanted scourge in the first place. But scourge has been disappointing cause the Rog isn't really a sustained damage kind of bot. It's more pop up and fire, and then duck and cover. So, maybe a ShockRog would be an awesome build. Stay at 500m with no damage decrease like the scourge, and potentially hit multiple targets. I could even fall in love with Canyon and Yamantau! It would potentially be like playing a tulu Rog, but without the shooting at corners bit.
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Post by xXrobotrippinXx on Nov 20, 2017 11:58:31 GMT -5
I got both Scourges from event only to realize I have nothing to run them on. I haven’t even bothered upgrading the 2nd one because I can’t think of an effective enough setup on a bot with 2 med slots.
I’ve been running one of them with a Zeus and Gekko on a Golem and it’s actually really fun and a decently effective setup.
For a little while, a few month ago, I was running a Molot T/Gekko Rhino as a counter sniper and I thought about trying that with Scourge/Gekk or Scourge/Molot but since the Scourge takes a couple seconds of lock to fire, it doesn’t seem like it would work too well. I just feel like I have no use for a second one.
I’m telling you this because it sucks having 2 of them and having no use for it. I don’t want you or anyone else to use resources on them and end up feeling the way I do about them do, so just consider that.
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Post by bronzeknee on Nov 20, 2017 12:37:00 GMT -5
The Bulgasari is the preferred Scourge Platform because you can turn while firing and thus use the shield to block while firing. The Haechi is the only real alternative.
I think everyone should focus their component collection on either a Haechi or Shocktrain. Those clearly give the best return on investment.
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Post by grendelsbot on Nov 20, 2017 13:24:54 GMT -5
Haechi is freakin expensive. Like what 8:1 in terms of trade in. Whereas weapons are less than 2. So as far as bang for your buck you can get multiple weapons for what it cost a bot. For instance a Scourge costs you just under 5000 gold taking the daily deals for 1430 gold. Taking the best 360 deals (not counting that one 1430 component deal) for Haechi is I think 700 gold and that would cost you 27k gold total. That is 5 Scourges. Probably 5 Shocktrains and probably 5 Embers. Mix them up and that's alot of new weapons.
I am going for the Haechi as I want it but keeping it in perspective.
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Post by Koalabear on Nov 20, 2017 13:28:16 GMT -5
I was leaning towards the ember simply because it could be a beast of a weapon, especially if combined with a decently fast and high HP bot and good back up weapons. Both the taran and magnum have the same range as the ember, so an ember/taran/magnum Golem would be a cheap ember/taran Lancelot or ember/magnum Leo. And, if I give the Golem the Mk2 treatment, it would be a force to be reckoned with.
On the other hand. Playing pop goes the Rogatka (with shocktrains) also sound appealing to me. I kinda regret spending my inital surplus of WSP on the scourge now, so I really want to think this through.
Yes, I could save up for the Haechi, but honestly, I'm happy with my garage right now. A Haechi would be awesome, but I think in my mind, it's lower on the priority scale (at least for now).
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Post by _psychø on Nov 20, 2017 13:52:04 GMT -5
Save your WSP for a hydra Doc.
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Nov 20, 2017 14:38:43 GMT -5
The component system is known to stop producing components once you reach a certain point, thereby requiring you to spend money to get the remaining components. If you have no intention of spending real money, I recommend your focus be to sell ALL of the components you ever acquire and get a ton of silver from it so you can upgrade other important stuff in your hangar.
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Post by Koalabear on Nov 20, 2017 15:34:21 GMT -5
Save your WSP for a hydra Doc. I have a hydra Fujin ready and waiting for the second hangar release. I took it out for a spin today with level 7 hydras...almost fell asleep...
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Post by Koalabear on Nov 20, 2017 15:36:22 GMT -5
The component system is known to stop producing components once you reach a certain point, thereby requiring you to spend money to get the remaining components. If you have no intention of spending real money, I recommend your focus be to sell ALL of the components you ever acquire and get a ton of silver from it so you can upgrade other important stuff in your hangar. I'm sitting on over 200M silver at this point. Sure, not a lot if I want to upgrade my stuff to max, but going to max in not in my near or not so near future. I'm not completely adverse to spending real money. But I tend to keep it to the small 1 - 6 dollar gold purchases to bulk up my gold reserves on occassion. I won't be spending RL on components - unless spending a bit of gold here and there counts.
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Nov 20, 2017 16:04:31 GMT -5
The component system is known to stop producing components once you reach a certain point, thereby requiring you to spend money to get the remaining components. If you have no intention of spending real money, I recommend your focus be to sell ALL of the components you ever acquire and get a ton of silver from it so you can upgrade other important stuff in your hangar. I'm sitting on over 200M silver at this point. Sure, not a lot if I want to upgrade my stuff to max, but going to max in not in my near or not so near future. I'm not completely adverse to spending real money. But I tend to keep it to the small 1 - 6 dollar gold purchases to bulk up my gold reserves on occassion. I won't be spending RL on components - unless spending a bit of gold here and there counts. The cut off is around 5800 components. I'll let everybody do the remaining component cost math on that.
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Post by F-A-H-Q on Nov 20, 2017 16:10:58 GMT -5
I would focus on weapons. I keep seeing folks with MK2 level 9 bots with un leveled weps. This is silly, the bots do no damage, but become greater silver rewards for your opponents. Ember does crazy amounts of damage, it is ambiguous if there is a bug, but the fact that it punches so hard from 350 and bypasses shields makes Ember my focus for component collecting. The three basic weapons I focused upgrades on were Taran Orkan Zeus. I will do the same when I finally get an ember (s). Shock train I will not use until it is not so OP, its not right. Scourge is just not gonna work in its current state for me. Tempest is not my play style.
Honestly, if you are a good or great pilot, tarans are the best weapon in the game.
If you keep your focus on the basics and level these up 2 things happen: 1. You will earn more silver for upgrades 2. you will be able to move these weapons onto a dash or inquisitor when you finally collect enough
Just like everything in this game, patience is rewarded. Or just buy it all.
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Post by grendelsbot on Nov 20, 2017 16:24:07 GMT -5
I voted for Haechi but think the Ember is a solid choice if you don't have as many resources. Also you can put one Ember on a Leo, Lance, Golem and even throw only one on a Carny along with a Thunder and be effective I think. I would think using only 1 Shocktrain might not be as effective (deadly) as one Ember. In test I always ran 3 Shocktrains on a Haechi or 2 Shocktrains on the hoverbot. I would just feel weird only running one Shocktrain.
Note: Someone in the forum said they knew someone with inside info that the Ember was going to be the Christmas task list prize. Keep that in mind. I get a feeling, if it's like last time that maybe we can earn one or two Embers plus a bot like hoverbot or the self-destructo-bot. I might have to grind it out again.
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Post by _psychø on Nov 20, 2017 16:25:19 GMT -5
Save your WSP for a hydra Doc. I have a hydra Fujin ready and waiting for the second hangar release. I took it out for a spin today with level 7 hydras...almost fell asleep... Build a hydra Doc or another Fujin, so you can actually fall asleep.
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Post by zer00eyz on Nov 20, 2017 16:30:01 GMT -5
Ok, I've been feeling really underwhelmed lately with my one itty bitty scourge. Golem (invest in the time and silver and gold to give it the Mk2 treatment), and then load it with an ember, taran and magnum. My favorite golem is a zeus/scouge/geko golem. If you have the kit around give it a try. The scourge is great to corner shoot inbound enemies with, increasing damage as they close tends to put more hurt on than one would suspect.
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Post by ezekielcrow on Nov 20, 2017 17:42:43 GMT -5
IMHO if you're an old hand at the game and not meta chasing, the haechi will bring little additional capability and enjoyment to your hangar. It is potent and it is efficient at what it does but it doesnt do anything that another well piloted bot available for less cannot accomplish. They also need relatively little skill to perform well. I have two (from 3.2 BM), and only occassionally take them out. They're not really that fun to play once the novelty wears off. And theres one thing a haechi, no matter how skillfully played cannot give you....bragging rights (like in a rog). So wheres the fun in that?
Give me a kumiho and shocktrains and I'll happily take on a haechi.
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Post by Crow T. Robot on Nov 20, 2017 18:22:22 GMT -5
IMHO if you're an old hand at the game and not meta chasing, the haechi will bring little additional capability and enjoyment to your hangar. It is potent and it is efficient at what it does but it doesnt do anything that another well piloted bot available for less cannot accomplish. They also need relatively little skill to perform well. I have two (from 3.2 BM), and only occassionally take them out. They're not really that fun to play once the novelty wears off. And theres one thing a haechi, no matter how skillfully played cannot give you....bragging rights (like in a rog). So wheres the fun in that? Give me a kumiho and shocktrains and I'll happily take on a haechi. I think it depends of your definition of enjoyment. I have no special weapons or bots in my hangar so I don't know what it feels like to use them. I can say that i've been on the receiving end of all of them but I keep telling myself its just a game that I play on my phone. I spent weeks saving enough AU to purchase a lancelot and felt like I was king of the world when I finally used it in battle. I dream of obtaining an Haechi and someday I will. But I'm NOT going to spend ridiculious amounts of money to do it.
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Post by T34 on Nov 20, 2017 18:34:53 GMT -5
There seems to be conflicting news about the component offers stopping once a person reaches a certain level ( bronzeknee has some rather firm evidence). For bots I reckon they become less frequent and the targeted components in each offer are lower. Before finishing my haechi for two-ish weeks all I seemed to be getting is a 120 offers every second day and the bundling was not favourable for the Haechi. Could this be a coincidence attributed to the cycle? It could but I sort of assume the worst with Pixonic nowadays when it comes to these obscure mechanisms and based on that I say it is by design. Personally the way I approach components now is: 1. 2 “targets” (happy to switch between them pending on the offer). Pointless being focused on one when you are not getting the offers. 2. 2 “I don’t mind getting” (having a second haechi for example is preferred but I don’t mind if it takes a while). 3. Rest I will not buy unless they are in a really good bundle with the targets or I don’t mind getting stuff. 4. When low on resources I just sit a cycle out. It should be noted that sitting a cycle out may actually help in the long run because you get better offers. As an example I was not buying 120 haechi offers and now getting 360 offers day after day. Targeting the shocktrains for the Kumi and to a lesser extent the ember. Eased off ember since the unconfirmed rumours that the xmass event is going to give 2 away. Besides what I have written above, ezekielcrow has some good points. Personally I will not chase the meta via the components system. It is really pointless if you do the maths about how long it will take to assemble a meta hanger via the components system. I am targeting the fun element. I think (could be wrong) the kumi with two shocktrains should be a fun set up as sort of looking for other ways to have fun with it besides using orks. Looking at the way this component market seems to be unfolding I reckon going for weapons at this point in time is the way to go. An ember carnage is of more value than an unassembled haechi.
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Post by [ツ] Beldanius on Nov 20, 2017 19:04:01 GMT -5
Koalabear fιяєfℓαмє frunobulax weaksauce GuitarGuySo, somewhat on topic, I won a Bulgasari on a contest, plus have one Scourge from the event. (Didn't have time to finish the 2nd Scourge.) The Scourge is not maxed yet, but it seems I do better with Tarans or Orkans on the Bulg rather then the Scourge. I would be curious if getting two more Scourges would ever be worth it or if I should run 1 Scourge and two Tarans/Orkans or do all three Tarans/Orkans.
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Post by weaksauce on Nov 20, 2017 19:30:44 GMT -5
Personally would not mix and match. Use 3 of the best you have. scourge would be my first choice, orkans second. Get as much use out of the shield as you can.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2017 19:36:57 GMT -5
I would focus on weapons. I keep seeing folks with MK2 level 9 bots with un leveled weps. This is silly, the bots do no damage, but become greater silver rewards for your opponents. Ember does crazy amounts of damage, it is ambiguous if there is a bug, but the fact that it punches so hard from 350 and bypasses shields makes Ember my focus for component collecting. The three basic weapons I focused upgrades on were Taran Orkan Zeus. I will do the same when I finally get an ember (s). Shock train I will not use until it is not so OP, its not right. Scourge is just not gonna work in its current state for me. Tempest is not my play style. Honestly, if you are a good or great pilot, tarans are the best weapon in the game. If you keep your focus on the basics and level these up 2 things happen: 1. You will earn more silver for upgrades 2. you will be able to move these weapons onto a dash or inquisitor when you finally collect enough Just like everything in this game, patience is rewarded. Or just buy it all. Those are some great weapons for knife fighting hanger. And Zeus for the current meta, as it's useful for both Ancilot frontal shielding and the soft underbelly of Kbots. I feel Ember is kinda weak, and really only good against bad players and a slow herd of Ancilots at a beacon who can't get out of the way. I've never had too much problem killing Ember users. Ember users will tell you their weaknesses, so if you pay attention. I don't see many all Taran pilots. I agree, that Tarans do much better dmg overall than Orkans, but not many know how to handle the shield bots like Ancilots. My hanger was pretty much Taran that I took over from a clanmate, as it had only one set of Orkans and no midrange. I had to level more sets of Orkans and a set of RDB for myself, since it's very tough using 5 brawlers with only 1 DB setup. I had to mix my Level 11 Orkan with Level 5 Orkans otherwise putting both stock Orkans on one bot in the upper tiers is suicide. I like the variable dmg weapons like the Molot because the current maps are too different. You don't want to stuck with Treb Fury on say Moon. But Molots are great knife-figthers as my underleveled Level 9 Tempest/Molot bot can take down an unsuspecting L12 Ancilot. I've faced max Scourges, and they sting when you get too close. I haven't looked at the math and don't own any, but would like to try them out for the same reason. The difference is that the ballistic weapons will bypass small shields, while the Scourge will hit only the central shield and not bypass it. So it's good or bad depending on how you want to use it, the situation, etc. So my Molot/Tempest does really good on maps like Yamantau of course, but it also does really good on Moon. Powerplant, not so much since there is too much cover. On Moon, I can usually get them under the tunnel, so it's partly luck too if they don't get out of my way. Tempest is a fun weapon too. I didn't like it at first, I still think it's kinda weak at long range unless you max it to Level 12. But once I found out how good it was at knife-fighting (very specific scenarios, not as good as Taran), then it became more fun to use Tempest builds. Scourge works very similar, plus it can go through Ancile and get all the Kbots. Despite its reputation as a long range weapon, i consider it a jack-of-all trades kinda weapon.
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Post by F-A-H-Q on Nov 20, 2017 22:29:52 GMT -5
IMHO if you're an old hand at the game and not meta chasing, the haechi will bring little additional capability and enjoyment to your hangar. It is potent and it is efficient at what it does but it doesnt do anything that another well piloted bot available for less cannot accomplish. They also need relatively little skill to perform well. I have two (from 3.2 BM), and only occassionally take them out. They're not really that fun to play once the novelty wears off. And theres one thing a haechi, no matter how skillfully played cannot give you....bragging rights (like in a rog). So wheres the fun in that? Give me a kumiho and shocktrains and I'll happily take on a haechi. I'm an old hand and disagree with the skill comment. Haechi and bulgasari both do what they do better than anything else. However if piloted poorly, they are not extraordinary. Piloted skillfully they are scary good. I run a mix of current and prior meta bots. I also agree that kumiho is a great haechi counter. So many folks play them like they are disposable. They are rock stars. With a set of shocktrains you can cap and kill all game. Including haechi.
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Post by ezekielcrow on Nov 21, 2017 0:41:48 GMT -5
IMHO if you're an old hand at the game and not meta chasing, the haechi will bring little additional capability and enjoyment to your hangar. It is potent and it is efficient at what it does but it doesnt do anything that another well piloted bot available for less cannot accomplish. They also need relatively little skill to perform well. I have two (from 3.2 BM), and only occassionally take them out. They're not really that fun to play once the novelty wears off. And theres one thing a haechi, no matter how skillfully played cannot give you....bragging rights (like in a rog). So wheres the fun in that? Give me a kumiho and shocktrains and I'll happily take on a haechi. I'm an old hand and disagree with the skill comment. Haechi and bulgasari both do what they do better than anything else. However if piloted poorly, they are not extraordinary. Piloted skillfully they are scary good. I run a mix of current and prior meta bots. I also agree that kumiho is a great haechi counter. So many folks play them like they are disposable. They are rock stars. With a set of shocktrains you can cap and kill all game. Including haechi. Actually, my point in that post was that even little skilled/new pilots are able to instantly improve their performance with these bots. I have huge respect for skilled pilots and have paid dearly many times for underestimating them even when they were running mechs that should have little threat to mine. 100% agreed on the scary good. MY apologies for not expressing it clearly.
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Post by The VVatcher on Nov 21, 2017 0:48:12 GMT -5
I was going to say Haechi until I read your post. Get the Shocktrains and put them on your Bulgasari. If your more interested in weapons than bots, this is the best weapon in the game. On the Bulgasari, you have the durability and range to stay in the game allowing you to stay aggressive with your Rogs.
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Post by F-A-H-Q on Nov 21, 2017 0:51:00 GMT -5
Actually a very good and important point Ezekielcrow. It's as hard as a thumb scan to have it all. Skill and awareness can't be bought but earned. This is why I try to post as many pointers as possible to help those that want to improve their skills in a legitimate fashion. It's plain as day to the vets who has paid their dues and who has paid for a hanger on the battle field. My hope is those that want to improve are not so discouraged by wallet warriors that they give up entirely. These P2W players can be beat with skill and a hanger that is well understood to counter the current meta (except shocktrain)
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Post by frunobulax on Nov 21, 2017 3:18:44 GMT -5
Koalabear fιяєfℓαмє frunobulax weaksauce GuitarGuy So, somewhat on topic, I won a Bulgasari on a contest, plus have one Scourge from the event. (Didn't have time to finish the 2nd Scourge.) The Scourge is not maxed yet, but it seems I do better with Tarans or Orkans on the Bulg rather then the Scourge. I would be curious if getting two more Scourges would ever be worth it or if I should run 1 Scourge and two Tarans/Orkans or do all three Tarans/Orkans. I wouldn't make more Scourges a priority. They are well balanced, but an Orkan or Taran Bulgasari is IMO just as efficient, even though it plays a different role in the hangar. The weapons that are currently OP are Shocktrain, Shocktrain and Shocktrain, and Embers and Tempests are also nice. But with limited resources I'd try to get an Haechi and some Shocktrains, and pick up the other stuff only if they come with the Haechi/Shocktrain deals. (Though we haven't seen decent Shocktrain deals for a while, maybe Pixo wants to pamper the whales some more.)
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Post by Koalabear on Nov 21, 2017 7:33:09 GMT -5
Thanks for all the input everyone! Lots of good discussions here. Even though the votes seem to favour the Haechi, I think I'll be focusing on the shocktrain. frunobulax, you have a very good point. If I load up 3 shocktrains on my Bulg, that would be seriously OP. I could stay at the 500m range, and unlike say 3 shocktrains on a Haechi, I'd be resistant to snipers and zeus builds, and just have to watch out for RDBs, which are a breeze to dodge in a Bulg at 500m (as long as I see them coming of course). Ugh, it's gonna take forever to get one schocktrain via components...but, with the Christmas season upon us, I just don' have an extra $300 to buy 3 shocktrains - and even if I did, I wouldn't spend that much on this game! I do like the idea of running an ember Golem though, so I'll be keeping an eye out for any combos that feature both shocktrain and ember together - don't know if I've ever seen them together or not though.
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Post by Koalabear on Nov 21, 2017 7:37:45 GMT -5
Koalabear fιяєfℓαмє frunobulax weaksauce GuitarGuy So, somewhat on topic, I won a Bulgasari on a contest, plus have one Scourge from the event. (Didn't have time to finish the 2nd Scourge.) The Scourge is not maxed yet, but it seems I do better with Tarans or Orkans on the Bulg rather then the Scourge. I would be curious if getting two more Scourges would ever be worth it or if I should run 1 Scourge and two Tarans/Orkans or do all three Tarans/Orkans. I recently went back to tarans on my Bulg for a couple of days and then swapped back to orkans. I have heavy thumbs, so tarans just don't work well for me. Out of a barrage (4 shots), I'll usually miss at least 1, and out of a magazine of 8 barrages, I'll probably miss 1 or 2. So, my damage output with tarans aren't that great. I do better with tarans on a Rog because with the Rog's speed and jumping, I can get in out out faster. Plus, I can do that Rog move where I lock on a target from behind cover, do a diagonal jump, twist and fire. With my Bulg, my usual tactic is to approach from my right, around cover, and blast as close to the red square as I can. I'll fire a short burst to see if I get a hit, and if I do, I'll go for an extended burst.
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