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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Nov 19, 2017 18:40:40 GMT -5
Umm... I thought the game wasn't pay to win, it was just game balancing? I thought you just had to get better? So just get better? If they have level 20 equipment and you only have level 10, you just need more skill! I can't find that part in the thread.... was it edited out? If so, that's good, because it's utter nonsense. There are some limits to how much skill can compensate for inferior machines: You can be the Red Baron, but if you pilot a 1917 Fokker biplane against a P-51 Mustang, even with a mediocre pilot on it, you are dead.
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Post by cmdrperalta on Nov 19, 2017 18:57:23 GMT -5
I got all three and went up 2-3 levels with days to spare. You can play fast and still play well without tanking. Same would be true without seal-clubbing, since most effective method of purchasing components with minimal Au is WSP. Any improvement in Au gained due to tanking is minimal at best. Maybe $1 worth of benefit over the course of a month. Strongly disagree. New MM discourages tanking in two ways: caliber of bot now appears to be a bigger factor and dropping matches will get you bounced to LQ. Method of acquiring components now less dependent on Au. There is almost no reason to tank in the current system other than to feel like a 「deteriorated bum-bum」 against weak competition in all the matches where you don't go -22 and kill your team's chances and your own reputation. At D and E levels in current system I draw seal clubbers all the time in new bots and lvl 12 or makr 2 bots that are playing gold or D3 or whatever. I love facing them. Main reason to tank now is bc you are a bad pilot who cannot compete with others of comparable level so you need to draw inferior competition. Aligned to your responses 1. For you to do that you need to play vastly more games than a tanker for kill and win tasks. Makes no difference for the beacon tasks if you take the short cuts. So all things being equal the clubber is way ahead.
2. I think you have a poorly tuned radar here. Its all about the rate of gold generation. An average player in the middle of the table with a 50/50 win/loss rate will only make a few gold per every 10 minutes in the long run. Very few. Aggressive clubbers on the other hand especially coordinated ones will walk away with 20-30 gold per 10 mins. Magnitudes higher. The optimal conversion of gold to WSP is at 188 AU per day. After that the gold purchase becomes better value for money. Thus huge advantage to the clubber because a) easy to make 188 and b) anything after that goes into AU component purchases (so buys both wsp and Au deals!) or c)playing Royale.
3. Again, its all about Au acquisition per period of time. Clubbers wanting to maximise Au generation would not be in E or D. they would be much lower. LQ has nothing to do with it as itâs a joke and only scoops up noobs. Half the population (L30 and above)probably knows how to avoid it. A different skill set is required for clubbing and for fighting similar opposition. Once a resource clubber has enough and moves up s/he will need to readjust to the competitive play style. Once they do you can say bye bye to what ever skills a person with an obsolete hanger has (in D or E) when facing a full properly equipped maxed out kbot hanger. Skill in this P2W environment is over rated and what ever is required can be easily acquired.
Edit: Not aware of hanger strength based MM at current time.
Again, I agree with much of this logic only that benefit was formerly much more pronounced previously than it is today. Current MM and method of component acquisition both reward tanking much less than previous versions. Benefit of how Au relates to component acquisition (as opposed to straight Au transaction) *obviously* minimizes effect of impact. Agree that name of game is Au acquisition over time. Only that your analysis *as applied* to current game inflates the value of T/C b/c there was traditionally more of a payoff. The current issue with P2W is less about tankers gaming the system than ppl spending big $$ a bunch of game-changing bots and weapon systems and max leveling them. T/C people who have been acquiring for years like clan MEXICO and others can still cash in on what they did in past, but current mechanism for acquiring rewards is less.
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Post by T34 on Nov 19, 2017 19:30:31 GMT -5
Aligned to your responses 1. For you to do that you need to play vastly more games than a tanker for kill and win tasks. Makes no difference for the beacon tasks if you take the short cuts. So all things being equal the clubber is way ahead.
2. I think you have a poorly tuned radar here. Its all about the rate of gold generation. An average player in the middle of the table with a 50/50 win/loss rate will only make a few gold per every 10 minutes in the long run. Very few. Aggressive clubbers on the other hand especially coordinated ones will walk away with 20-30 gold per 10 mins. Magnitudes higher. The optimal conversion of gold to WSP is at 188 AU per day. After that the gold purchase becomes better value for money. Thus huge advantage to the clubber because a) easy to make 188 and b) anything after that goes into AU component purchases (so buys both wsp and Au deals!) or c)playing Royale.
3. Again, its all about Au acquisition per period of time. Clubbers wanting to maximise Au generation would not be in E or D. they would be much lower. LQ has nothing to do with it as it’s a joke and only scoops up noobs. Half the population (L30 and above)probably knows how to avoid it. A different skill set is required for clubbing and for fighting similar opposition. Once a resource clubber has enough and moves up s/he will need to readjust to the competitive play style. Once they do you can say bye bye to what ever skills a person with an obsolete hanger has (in D or E) when facing a full properly equipped maxed out kbot hanger. Skill in this P2W environment is over rated and what ever is required can be easily acquired.
Edit: Not aware of hanger strength based MM at current time.
Again, I agree with much of this logic only that benefit was formerly much more pronounced previously than it is today. Current MM and method of component acquisition both reward tanking much less than previous versions. Benefit of how Au relates to component acquisition (as opposed to straight Au transaction) *obviously* minimizes effect of impact. Agree that name of game is Au acquisition over time. Only that your analysis *as applied* to current game inflates the value of T/C b/c there was traditionally more of a payoff. The current issue with P2W is less about tankers gaming the system than ppl spending big $$ a bunch of game-changing bots and weapon systems and max leveling them. T/C people who have been acquiring for years like clan MEXICO and others can still cash in on what they did in past, but current mechanism for acquiring rewards is less. I fully agree that the current P2W is about ppl spending money and less about tankers gaming the system. I think that point is undeniable. Also would say that a lot of vetrans spent their savings to buy the new gear and that just added to the P2W issue (but they can only do that every so often).
I look at the rewards for tanking now and previously differently. Different perspective. The biggest blow by far to T/C recently has been dealt by the in game inflation of premium equipment pricing. Putting together 5000 au for a lance is way easier than putting together 30K for a haechi. However, the current MM makes clubbing much easier because you can drop a 12/12 bot into Bronze and club away much more easily than with a gep yesteryear. On the balance of things the in game inflation was so big in relation to making clubbing easier that overall clubbing provides less of a benefit now than before. The current situation is a side effect of pixonic’s greed.
However, at the end of the day if a person is not willing to pay RM for premium equipment but wants them in a reasonable time frame than s/he has only one option. Its harder than before but there isn’t another option.
The problem with T/C is if it reaches a saturation point than there will not be a middle tier and the game will fade into the sunset. I reckon Pixonic benefits from T/C's as long as a saturation point is not reached/exceeded.
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Post by cmdrperalta on Nov 19, 2017 21:00:19 GMT -5
Well, interesting conversation. I am not in bronze. My own experience in the middle tiers of D1 to E2 is that it's my sense is that league matters less in MM than it used to, since I see a lot of tankers who are gold or whatever and they are in matches I am playing in as part of an overall balanced side that can include ppl all the way up the food chain. All of that is fairly recent, maybe only starting in this release or the previous one. Running into whole sides of the new bots kinda sucks but that is not really the norm right now, at least in the matches I play in.
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Post by MΞCHДИISΓIC on Nov 20, 2017 8:31:38 GMT -5
Match making has changed for the better on Android Expert. Sometimes I have to wait a minute for a match up but it's so worth it. No more champs. Few Cash bots, virtually none in Domination. Not even a lot of tankers/faders. Many close games. Most of the time I have only myself to blame when I lose league points (not games, let's face it, blues sometimes just suck;). I almost miss the champs a little, they often know how to run a battle. I noticed the same thing on iOS. The break point is still E3 to E2, but it is less drastic than a couple weeks ago. I keep going back and forth between E3 and E2. In E3 I am seeing other Expert level players, with occasional champs (maybe 1 on each side) and occasional diamonds. Once you hit E2 there are definitely more champ pilots/dashbots/shocktrains etc, but I am no longer seeing 4 champs on a team.
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Post by SuperHero on Nov 20, 2017 8:42:00 GMT -5
Thank you OP. That was well written and I appreciate the honesty.
Nerfs for the Haechi have already been proposed by lots of folks who have had Pix's ear. My proposal was a weaker ancile and a longer cooldown for the dash ability.
Frankly I find the Haechi the only OP Dash bot. The others while annoying are still not crazy invincible.
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