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Post by Russel on Oct 24, 2017 9:03:00 GMT -5
Pretty equal. I met tankers in LQ only occasional, and every battle (save for Yama\Springfield) was fun to play; Namely: - You can't predict match outcome in first 2-3 minutes
- A LOT of different stuff on the field, which brings diversity and fun
- Most often match ends in meching out, but not in a stupid massacre. Meaning that people were pushing for beacons when in disadvantage, not being afraid of their League score drain
- Players usually either don't show or play whole battle. I can't recall a match where players are ejecting mid-battle or ditching bots in a row.
- It is wild experience in Yamantau or Springfield. Really random. You either get 1 vs 3 game, or play vs snipers or it's just a throwdown brawler match.
- You are almost guaranteed NOT to get an Ancile parade in a battle.
However, downsides are: - Lower silver payout (often each team got 1-2 Bronze\Gold players with lower level bots, so less damage)
- No chance to play against a coordinated team (I met squad only once)
- You MUST have 8+ equipment, otherwise, you will be crushed every game
- Matchmaking for Domination (well, dedicated Domination in the past but anyway) is taking long time (my record is 30min). Beacon rush is ~1min usually though.
The opposite is true in the LQ for Android for a lot of what you stated. But fun is relative I suppose. I hated every second of it despite having 8-10 equipment. Every single match is wildly divergent in player levels, ranks and upgrades. As a Recruit in the Android LQ you will see Champions, even Legends in your matches. Level 2 players(I posted pics of those in some threads here) with Legends. Imagine the shock of a brand new player in their second match driving a barely/if upgraded Destrier, facing off for a mere half a second against a full 12/12 Tarancilot or 12/12 Zeus's Fury. Full squads of Champion clans stomping their way through opposition, or squad skipping certain maps. That's just some of that "fair gameplay" as Pixonic likes to expect from us players, but not from themselves. Let's qualify "even" or "fair" then :-D Even (usual in LQ): Reds: Champ, Champ, Expert, Gold, Diamond, Bronze Blues: Champ, Champ, Expert, Gold, Diamond, Bronze Uneven (usual in NQ): Reds: Champ, Champ, Expert, Expert, Master, Diamond Blues: Champ, Master, Expert, Expert, Diamond, Diamond And there were absolutely NO squads in Domination. p.s. I like your motto :-D
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Oct 24, 2017 14:33:25 GMT -5
Android's LQ is far different then. Lopsided matches are the norm. So much so that in the rare instances that matches become even closely even in ranking and/or equipment players notice it immediately at first. I think it's Pixonic's twisted way of teasing players, making them think that they are free for a match or three, before the hammer comes down again and the LQ matching gets back to "normal".
Pixonic told players that if they squad they would not be facing the LQ. Obviously that was a lie for both iOS and Android. In Android's LQ I saw just as much squading going on as out in the Tankers Queue.
Also dropping/leaving/skipping maps is still quite prevalent in Android's LQ. And it's almost a given that it will be squads doing it while trying to find a map that they want to play on. When I dropped in on Spingfield or Yamantau with any teammates that were squading I'd just wait to see if they were going to jump or dump so I would know how hard to play. If they dumped and left the rest of us short I'd kamakazi while shooting at the nearest enemy bots just to get the matches over with quickly.
I run 8 profiles and out of all of them I was surprised to find that my Steel Cat profile provides me my greatest enjoyment and fairest matchings playing the game. More surprising considering its hanger. All Destriers. They're fairly balanced as a bot. Good speed, decent weapons and armor.
The pace of battle in light bots is faster, no trudging around to get into range. Yeah, it takes a while to destroy some bots, but that's just part of the challenge and the fun. Using them properly forces the player to be a real teammate. Because as a light bot pilot you need the protection of other teammates' bots to survive. And they need the light bot pilots to try and get those beacons.
My Steel Cat profile managed a better than 62% win/loss well into player level 29. The recent boycott really put a crimp in that rating when the lower tiers became flooded with even more tankers than usual. Dropped to my lowest of 50% for a couple of days before it let up a bit and I climbed back up to 58%. About where it usually drops just before the seasons end.
But because my win/loss stays above 50% my sense of fairness is satisfied even though my ranking only flutters a little up and down. Steel Cat has touched Gold1 several times but drops back to Silver1 fairly quickly too. But with that better than 50% win/loss rating I never feel frustrated. I'm on the winning side more often than not. Not something to b*tch about.
But I'm also not a player that cares one whit about those ridiculous rankings. My better than 50% win/loss tells me all that I need to know about my own playing ability. Those rankings do not tell the entire story of a player's abilities obviously. Just look at the number of players in the higher tiers dissatisfied because their win/loss rates are way down in the 30% areas.
But the bigger point is that my Steel Cat profile gets the best matches. Almost always fair even though I do see a few Diamonds-Experts and quite a few hardcore tankers in the matches. I want to get those Destiers to 12/12 just to see what happens, but I'm sorely tempted to switch over to all Stalkers. What would stealth do to my win/loss I wonder.?
None of my other 7 profiles even come close to having the same number of fair matchings that the Steel Cat gets. And I have to wonder why that is. Is it my hanger, or my playing style?
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Post by maverick on Oct 24, 2017 15:47:03 GMT -5
I am a noob to War Robots, I've only been playing about 3 months on Facebook Gameroom. Most of my bots are around level 7 - 8 with weapons between 7 - 10, and I'm in Champion League, since the "upgrade" my win ratio has dropped quite a bit. Why? Sure my ratings are going up so I would expect to face tougher opposition however it happened suddenly after the update. I am facing markedly more dash bots and ancelots. When I first started playing (before the upgrade) I was facing other destriders and cossacks and the occasional golem or vitaz until I upgraded and levelled up Just out of curiosity I started a new account in my second game there was a carnage (I don't remember if it was blue or red but it was there fighting level 1 destriders and cossacks). I kept at it and now have been playing for approx 2 weeks, I have 2 GI Pattons a Boa and a Vitaz. Every game I am facing plasma and RDB griffins, natashas, Lances and the odd dash bot with maybe 1 game in 20 - 25 facing similar equipment to what I have. Most of the games I am playing against equipment I can't even buy. I'd hate to be someone just starting the game now. Clearly PTW is in full force.
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sidebandit
Destrier
Posts: 41
Karma: 23
Platform: Android
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Doc
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Post by sidebandit on Oct 24, 2017 15:50:01 GMT -5
Android's LQ is far different then. Lopsided matches are the norm. So much so that in the rare instances that matches become even closely even in ranking and/or equipment players notice it immediately at first. I think it's Pixonic's twisted way of teasing players, making them think that they are free for a match or three, before the hammer comes down again and the LQ matching gets back to "normal". Pixonic told players that if they squad they would not be facing the LQ. Obviously that was a lie for both iOS and Android. In Android's LQ I saw just as much squading going on as out in the Tankers Queue. Also dropping/leaving/skipping maps is still quite prevalent in Android's LQ. And it's almost a given that it will be squads doing it while trying to find a map that they want to play on. When I dropped in on Spingfield or Yamantau with any teammates that were squading I'd just wait to see if they were going to jump or dump so I would know how hard to play. If they dumped and left the rest of us short I'd kamakazi while shooting at the nearest enemy bots just to get the matches over with quickly. I run 8 profiles and out of all of them I was surprised to find that my Steel Cat profile provides me my greatest enjoyment and fairest matchings playing the game. More surprising considering its hanger. All Destriers. They're fairly balanced as a bot. Good speed, decent weapons and armor. The pace of battle in light bots is faster, no trudging around to get into range. Yeah, it takes a while to destroy some bots, but that's just part of the challenge and the fun. Using them properly forces the player to be a real teammate. Because as a light bot pilot you need the protection of other teammates' bots to survive. And they need the light bot pilots to try and get those beacons. My Steel Cat profile managed a better than 62% win/loss well into player level 29. The recent boycott really put a crimp in that rating when the lower tiers became flooded with even more tankers than usual. Dropped to my lowest of 50% for a couple of days before it let up a bit and I climbed back up to 58%. About where it usually drops just before the seasons end. But because my win/loss stays above 50% my sense of fairness is satisfied even though my ranking only flutters a little up and down. Steel Cat has touched Gold1 several times but drops back to Silver1 fairly quickly too. But with that better than 50% win/loss rating I never feel frustrated. I'm on the winning side more often than not. Not something to b*tch about. But I'm also not a player that cares one whit about those ridiculous rankings. My better than 50% win/loss tells me all that I need to know about my own playing ability. Those rankings do not tell the entire story of a player's abilities obviously. Just look at the number of players in the higher tiers dissatisfied because their win/loss rates are way down in the 30% areas. But the bigger point is that my Steel Cat profile gets the best matches. Almost always fair even though I do see a few Diamonds-Experts and quite a few hardcore tankers in the matches. I want to get those Destiers to 12/12 just to see what happens, but I'm sorely tempted to switch over to all Stalkers. What would stealth do to my win/loss I wonder.? None of my other 7 profiles even come close to having the same number of fair matchings that the Steel Cat gets. And I have to wonder why that is. Is it my hanger, or my playing style? Try a MK2 stalker nearly 110hp and a MK2 jes 130hp
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Oct 24, 2017 22:37:25 GMT -5
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Post by Russel on Oct 25, 2017 3:13:45 GMT -5
This is what Android has been feeding me(or was it "feeding me to?") in all of my profiles, both squading and soloing, this week. Score card... This is Pixonic's idea of "fair matching". It was even worse playing with my Steel Cat profile which is currently a Silver2. An actual Master1 in one match along with 4 Experts and 5 Diamonds at various levels and a Gold3. And many other matches in in the same genre. Normal Queue?
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Oct 25, 2017 5:38:28 GMT -5
This is what Android has been feeding me(or was it "feeding me to?") in all of my profiles, both squading and soloing, this week. Score card... This is Pixonic's idea of "fair matching". It was even worse playing with my Steel Cat profile which is currently a Silver2. An actual Master1 in one match along with 4 Experts and 5 Diamonds at various levels and a Gold3. And many other matches in in the same genre. Normal Queue? What is this "Normal Queue" you speak of? Yes, Tankers Queue, not LQ. And as the pic shows, I have corroboration of a clanmate. Seeing the same sh*t this morning as well. So far 3 matches of 12 has been almost fair, and that's only because of a tanker or two in Gold. Bearable but maddening. I should switch over to see what's happening in Silver I suppose.
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sidebandit
Destrier
Posts: 41
Karma: 23
Platform: Android
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Doc
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Post by sidebandit on Oct 25, 2017 7:22:22 GMT -5
That's a tough one, what you need is a proper after match report with all your teams hanger weight along with opposition hanger weight. As you know you the way some people play this game it is possible for a lower hanger to be stronger than a higher league one, difficult to tell from those shots alone.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Oct 25, 2017 7:55:32 GMT -5
That's a tough one, what you need is a proper after match report with all your teams hanger weight along with opposition hanger weight. As you know you the way some people play this game it is possible for a lower hanger to be stronger than a higher league one, difficult to tell from those shots alone. Netsuko was running 5-9 upgrades at about 7 on average. My own are 7-9 in that hanger and definitely a solid 8 on average. The opposition was running mostly 7-12 with an approximate average of 10. Although there were a very few 6s in the mix as well. My Steel Cat is an all Destrier stable with all 9 bots with 7-8 weapons in Silver2 with infrequent trips to Gold1. Neither situation warrants facing such higher opposition on a regular basis, especially the second. But I suppose I should be flattered that the MM thinks my little war horses are that vicious.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Oct 27, 2017 15:51:23 GMT -5
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Post by northempire on Oct 27, 2017 15:57:05 GMT -5
Hi Hurtbot, thanks very much for the feedback - much appreciated and some good points. I'd like to respond if I may: Nikita from Pixonic confirmed at the time of the test that the matchmaker was based on the level of the pilot, and not on bots or hangers. She also confirmed that Pixonic would not be returning to that model in the future. So, based on this feedback, it was understood that league levels were not meaningless, but actually rather relevant. You make a good observation in that some Diamond players have stronger hangers than you'd expect. This might be for a number of reasons including levelling slowly, purchased upgrades, tanking, or simply the general weapon/bot level increasing over time within the wider game. Either way, we know that at the time of the test, hanger strength was not a factor in the match maker. The focus of the test was on the match-maker, and its basis for matching: league levels. So, win outcomes wasn't something that were focused upon, as that takes place after match-making has completed and is based on a more complex list of parameters. You did however make an interesting suggestion about testing above and below 50%. Have you any thoughts on how you would you model this given the complexities of multiple squad-mates, and of constantly changing team make-up over a period of days? If so, I'd be interested in working with you on this. You are quite right that maxed hangers of different bots will pose different strengths. However, as above, at the time of the test, hanger strengths were confirmed to have no bearing on the match-maker, so this wasn't relevant. You are of course entitled to your opinion and doubts, but bare in mind that one objective behind the test was to put empirical data, from 100 battles, behind a conclusion and avoid subjective statements, urban myths and assumptions. So, for the duration of 100 battles across geographies, league levels, time zone and squad sizes, we know that this does indeed reflect reality. As emphasised in the article, the test was intended to be a rough indication as to what was going on, and the reader was urged to accept the findings in the spirit in which they were intended. Thanks again for taking the time to feedback. Kind Regards Minski la femme nikita?
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Oct 27, 2017 16:34:32 GMT -5
Posted the previous match right after playing it. This is essentially back-to-back since it was right after posting that match... This was all mixed up across the board from level 9-30, Private2-Silver2. "Fair"? I don't see it. My Gold profiles are now consistently seeing Diamonds-Expert3, even a Master once in a while. And I'm still seeing super tankers all around. I have to wonder if this is how Pixonic is "fixing" the issue of the complaints from players about tankers. Just mix/"fix" the mm so badly that tankers are just no longer noticed. ?
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Post by Russel on Oct 27, 2017 19:30:31 GMT -5
Russel I don't see how you can call the LQ "fair" in any sense. Lower ranked players get excluded from Au and any fair distribution of Ag. Many of those lower ranked players are clueless noobs who are just fodder for the higher ranked players. What enjoyment do you think they are getting out of the game in there? Experience at getting the sh*t beat out of them on a daily basis? Because when faced with such overwhelming opposition your "player experience" quotient get filled up pretty quickly with "frustration points". I know that I wasn't a noob when I got put in there and my equipment was mostly 5-6. But I certainly never once found it "fair" in any way. You are attributing something that I haven't said to me =) The _MATCHMAKING_ algorithm is more balanced, meaning it's "fair" in LQ. I never said LQ is fair in any way, especially for new players.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Oct 27, 2017 20:39:47 GMT -5
Russel I don't see how you can call the LQ "fair" in any sense. Lower ranked players get excluded from Au and any fair distribution of Ag. Many of those lower ranked players are clueless noobs who are just fodder for the higher ranked players. What enjoyment do you think they are getting out of the game in there? Experience at getting the sh*t beat out of them on a daily basis? Because when faced with such overwhelming opposition your "player experience" quotient get filled up pretty quickly with "frustration points". I know that I wasn't a noob when I got put in there and my equipment was mostly 5-6. But I certainly never once found it "fair" in any way. You are attributing something that I haven't said to me =) The _MATCHMAKING_ algorithm is more balanced, meaning it's "fair" in LQ. I never said LQ is fair in any way, especially for new players. Then I retract my statement as I misunderstood yours. I certainly don't know anything about your own experience in the LQ or the records you kept. After a month or so in there I became completely uninterested in trying to determine if there was any "balance" by participants. For myself I saw that one side was just as likely to have all Champions while the other had one Champion and a mixed box of Recruits-Diamonds. Getting stomped day after day after day in the LQ, and having very few opportunities to capture any worthwhile rewards, it becomes very monotonous and extremely frustrating. That was my determination of fair and balanced in the LQ. An even chance for every player in the matches of obtaining Au and Ag. Lesser upgraded players rarely shared in the win rewards, if at all. Many times I was left with a deficit as my bots were hammered out flat just trying to get into range of a 12/12 player.
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Post by Russel on Oct 28, 2017 4:57:36 GMT -5
You are attributing something that I haven't said to me =) The _MATCHMAKING_ algorithm is more balanced, meaning it's "fair" in LQ. I never said LQ is fair in any way, especially for new players. Then I retract my statement as I misunderstood yours. I certainly don't know anything about your own experience in the LQ or the records you kept. After a month or so in there I became completely uninterested in trying to determine if there was any "balance" by participants. For myself I saw that one side was just as likely to have all Champions while the other had one Champion and a mixed box of Recruits-Diamonds. Getting stomped day after day after day in the LQ, and having very few opportunities to capture any worthwhile rewards, it becomes very monotonous and extremely frustrating. That was my determination of fair and balanced in the LQ. An even chance for every player in the matches of obtaining Au and Ag. Lesser upgraded players rarely shared in the win rewards, if at all. Many times I was left with a deficit as my bots were hammered out flat just trying to get into range of a 12/12 player. 1) if you got at least 8+ equipment you'll get good amount of Gold\Silver every battle 2) It's not "fair" in terms "everybody is a winner" thing. It's "fair" in term that game is NOT trying to beat down somebody deliberately. It's as fair as life can be. Somebody is born Trump, somebody is born Hilton, and folks like me need to work for their living. Such is life. 3) It happened to me that one side got more champions, yes. But usually, because other side's champs left the battle. And it never felt that game is deliberately feeding me to the higher opposition, or feeding lower players for my side. In fact the FIRST battle I got once I get out of LQ was random Expert players vs HEAT 12\12 squad. That never happened in LQ. So by "fair" I mean "random and more balanced than NQ", only that. And my guess is than what you mean under "fair" I would name "equal". No, LQ and NQ are NOT giving equal chances to any players. However, LQ is less biased towards the player. It cares less if you win or lose, so to say.
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