andy3k
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Post by andy3k on Oct 13, 2017 22:13:17 GMT -5
DarkVagabond"The community needs to ask the right questions to get to know the poster in order to tailor advice suitable to the individual in question." True that. My group at work responds to data requests. Our assumption is that the requesters think they know what they want but they often do not know what they need. We have to ask a lot of questions to find out what they are using the data for, what they think the data they ask for represents, what other data might help them achieve their goal, etc., not to mention when they want it, what format they want it in, etc. I have a document with a list of my questions so that I don't forget to ask them anything. At first, they get impatient with all my questions but, by the end of the conversation, they realize that I'm giving them what they really need, not what they thought they wanted, and they are happier for it. I imagine a group of you could develop a set of questions to profile players and help you give them answers to achieve their goals. Do they prefer offense, defense, or support? Are they casual players or P2P/semi-pro/pro? To they prefer to take things fast or slow? A standard set of profiling questions helps you give better advice ... in theory. Redfiend"The whole point of all this is that old heads try to lean toward helping new people like you find what you like, instead of pushing the advice from pre-Leagues." How many of the old heads giving advice are pre-League themselves? That might skew their advice.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 22:13:22 GMT -5
DarkVagabond I wholeheartedly agree, that's the point. The average advice distributed on the forum is put out with "set-in-stone" and anything contrary to it tends to be scoffed at. Just trying to encourage a little critical thinking and game related conversation that is closer to what we as a community can do outside of ranting and raging. andy3kIf they don't truly know then they should either learn, or be more open to the feedback and experiences of the other members of the forum that are experiencing the woes. Too much of the Naysayer/Apologist/skeptic/extremist going around in terms of pretty much every concept of the game and Pix. Being a legend league player after 3 years of play doesn't mean you know everything, or that there isn't more to learn. As with society at large, people have a hard time listening to anything outside of their own perception. The bigger the group of people, the less likely change may occur. This is a fairly close knit community, and in the hard times, anyone trying to carry the same sentiment I am is usually derailed and drowned by pettiness.
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Post by SuperHero on Oct 13, 2017 22:55:05 GMT -5
You're a good dude and that's a very thoughtful approach Redfiend . Hope the mods give you some green paint again on your name so newer folk know they can trust your counsel. Now, go get yourself a RDB. The question is, does he even WANT the green paint again? Cos if he felt so strongly about it that he had to delete his account due to his addictive personality, I wouldnt wanna do anything that he didnt want.
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Post by bloodynipples on Oct 13, 2017 23:09:00 GMT -5
You missed 2 opportunities with your 1st bot...You were at 260m when the 1st griff jumped into your view, and the 2nd when the guy was on the barrier. Then you jumped into the barrier, blocking your shots. There were 2 bots there, only jump in when you can get away.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 23:15:05 GMT -5
You're a good dude and that's a very thoughtful approach Redfiend . Hope the mods give you some green paint again on your name so newer folk know they can trust your counsel. Now, go get yourself a RDB. The question is, does he even WANT the green paint again? Cos if he felt so strongly about it that he had to delete his account due to his addictive personality, I wouldnt wanna do anything that he didnt want. It is what it is. I still intend on putting out the same grade of content/satire/sarcasm as I always have. I literally just needed to remove my voice from the forum long enough to get my head together, as I know that my impartial attitude was fading and I was posting comparatively more salt posts than ever. I still love War Robots, it's problems and all. Those of us that care enough to be here can still fight and roast Pix about the bad things, but there has just been far too little focus on the spirits of why you, Strayed etc made, and continue to moderate this forum and wiki. Tldr: Sure, I'll take the green back.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 23:19:37 GMT -5
You missed 2 opportunities with your 1st bot...You were at 260m when the 1st griff jumped into your view, and the 2nd when the guy was on the barrier. Then you jumped into the barrier, blocking your shots. There were 2 bots there, only jump in when you can get away. It's easy to see mistakes in hindsight. When the Rog jumped while I was going up the ramp, there was no clearance between my Orks and the target. The jump was botched: I meant to jump onto the adjacent platform but botched changing directions and landed on the rail instead; because I was silly enough to actually consider that the two Griffins in the alley below me were competent enough to not evaporate in the few seconds I wasn't looking.
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Post by DarkVagabond on Oct 14, 2017 0:20:54 GMT -5
Welcome back Never left my friend, as I said, I’m taking a ‘step back’. While I’m not playing at the moment, I think the principles of coaching still give me enough insight to comment on this thread
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Post by _psychø on Oct 14, 2017 12:42:12 GMT -5
I knew it was you! It's great to have you back Redfiend! I'm also facing the same rate as you, walls of ancilots and dashers, my position in the battle doesn't matter sometimes due to the underpowered weapons and bots compared to the maxed toys that everyone else have, but you know what? You can always go back a league or two, not "tanking" and being AFK but just playing in a different way for less points, it's a slow process but it works fine, you stay at a lower league until you prepare your hanger for the extreme battles, that's what I'm doing and no I am not willing to spend a penny, not even on premium.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2017 13:02:09 GMT -5
I knew it was you! It's great to have you back Redfiend! I'm also facing the same rate as you, walls of ancilots and dashers, my position in the battle doesn't matter sometimes due to the underpowered weapons and bots compared to the maxed toys that everyone else have, but you know what? You can always go back a league or two, not "tanking" and being AFK but just playing in a different way for less points, it's a slow process but it works fine, you stay at a lower league until you prepare your hanger for the extreme battles, that's what I'm doing and no I am not willing to spend a penny, not even on premium. I can take losses, I just can't take huge strings of consecutively losing slooooowwwwwwllllyyyy. My sentiment is that we try to circumvent, or at least soften the blow of said wall when new folk come here for advice by avoiding the mistakes we've made/certain tenets of advice given in an almost dogmatic manner. The perspective how long it takes to reach the end needs to be emphasized more in the conversations here, as each bit of advice should, realistically, be taylored to how much money the inquirer is willing to spend to speed up the arguous process of getting to the upper echelons. No one wants to be underpowered, but rushing to compete in the meta pretty much guarantees such. And, thanks lol
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Post by jckidd on Oct 14, 2017 13:56:15 GMT -5
I made a similar post a few days ago expressing the same viewpoints. I couldn't agree more. The game beats down skilled players that aren't willing to fork over thousands. I also started a new account a while back and it wasn't more than two weeks from starting the account that I was outmatched and in a state of never being able to compete unless I tanked. If you are good at the game, no matter what hangar you use, you're going to be on the top half of your team more often than not. And usually in one of the top two. This all but gaurantees a steady climb through the leagues all the way to the top, no matter how weak your hangar is. I've recently discovered that you basically need your entire hangar AT LEAST 5 levels below the norm for your current league in order to stop climbing. And while you can continue to do average damage compared to your teammates, can you fathom how meaningless your contribution is to the overall outcome of the game with such a weak hangar? The fact that the current matchmaker forces skilled players to severely handicap themselves to keep from climbing at a ridiculous pace is terrible for said players. I believe in having somewhat of an ELO matchmaker, because basing it entirely on hangar strength was absurd in my opinion. There's no reason a player of my skill level should be able to field a 4/4 hangar and pound on noobs for easy Au and Ag. But there's also no reason for me at 7/7 to be in Champions. Yet here we are. I'm not sure if anyone has suggested this, but what about a hybrid matchmaker? That first sets people into tiers based on their hangar strength, similar to how it used to be, THEN matches people within that tier based on their ELO rating. This means that in most cases, people with high skill will be matched against other players with high skill, regardless of what strength hangar they choose to field. Just another suggestion that Pixonic will never consider, but what else are we here for? read my post in seems a simple fix. I've been suggesting something similar for months ?
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Post by stokr on Oct 14, 2017 14:31:28 GMT -5
So, like...what's some better and more useful advice that's different, or counter to what's already pushed out on these forums?
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Post by zer00eyz on Oct 14, 2017 14:43:57 GMT -5
Were not talking about the elephant in the room: Let me selectively quote Redfiend Well no 「dookie」, of course you melted to that Rog: This is your hanger: And then the Rog you were up against: Well duh you felt "low impact" because you were low impact. NokiaSåmsung said: The current MM might have you facing the same player even in bronze. You literally can NOT hide from people who have the will and desire to manipulate mechanics in their favor. Does pix lack the technical capability or wherewithal to fix the problem? The answer is NO, the problem is solvable. The answer that no one wants to confront, no one wants to face is that is benefits pix to have things the way they are. Lets face facts, those that choose to manipulate their league standing to their own benefit also create pressure on people to spend money. Meanwhile we stand steadfast by the idea that "exploiting" the system to our own advantage is some sort of moral/ethical taboo. Is there advice we should be giving that we aren't, there sure is but I don't think bot and weapon selection is even remotely part of what we aren't saying.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2017 15:21:02 GMT -5
Were not talking about the elephant in the room: Let me selectively quote Redfiend Well no ?poo-poo?, of course you melted to that Rog: This is your hanger: And then the Rog you were up against: Well duh you felt "low impact" because you were low impact. NokiaSåmsung said: The current MM might have you facing the same player even in bronze. You literally can NOT hide from people who have the will and desire to manipulate mechanics in their favor. Does pix lack the technical capability or wherewithal to fix the problem? The answer is NO, the problem is solvable. The answer that no one wants to confront, no one wants to face is that is benefits pix to have things the way they are. Lets face facts, those that choose to manipulate their league standing to their own benefit also create pressure on people to spend money. Meanwhile we stand steadfast by the idea that "exploiting" the system to our own advantage is some sort of moral/ethical taboo. Is there advice we should be giving that we aren't, there sure is but I don't think bot and weapon selection is even remotely part of what we aren't saying. Yes, lets just encourage everyone to load up on griffins and leos and drop back onto bronze every chance they get. Lets tell every new player to pay up or shut up. Lets do absolutely nothing but ?female dog? at Pix with out fingers up our ?bum-bum?. Changing the methodology of advice here has one purpose, and one purpose alone: minimizing the impact of what we cannot control. Yes, we can spam emails with well constructed criticisms and derogatory ?poo-poo? storms all day, but we still do not control their actions, and we never will. We'll directly impact Pix when the hobos on the street corner make walmart change it's business practices. Promoting a slower growth through the league system is what we can do, right now, to improve the experience of new players before they get in over their head. Losing 2-3 bots and a couple of minutes to a sandbagging ?poo-poo? pie is better than fighting a losing battle for 8 minutes, just to get pushed even HIGHER. Unlike Gepard clubbing, there is no effective setup to jump into that placates the circumstance. Everyone who's just starting out in silver 3 with a bunch of 6/3 heavy bots IS THE WALKING SILVER THESE ?roast beef? WAFFLES ARE FARMING. Low HP totals and less bots means less Ag for those that need to feel like they're the best player while being nothing but lazy, bottom feeding trash. If lower leagues were filled with ACTUAL low level equipment, there wouldn't be any AG to farm, and these ?poo place?s would have to go into the LQ to farm newbies. Currently, even the non sandbaggers have at least 400k health in their lineup right out of newbie leagues, thats 400k easy silver before repair costs. Lower level gear will let you take the ?bum-bum? whoopin quickly and move on, while screwing over the carpet cleaner's Ag gains. While sandbaggers are going down, we're actively encouraging sets that make newbies a bunch of low lying fruit ripe for the picking. This is about where we are right now as a community, being absolutly nothing but torches, pitchforks and lamentations IS NOT why I stay here, nor why I take the time to write what I do.
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Post by javelinaut717 on Oct 14, 2017 15:32:56 GMT -5
Well I'm not an expert on what or what not good advice should you follow. Being upset and raging or overwhelming over about being out rank and out skill is a normal play who don't know. Everything base on trials, error or bad luck. Is a normal who anyone is frustrated with this game.
Some advice told you how or what should be use at isn't its faults, but depend how you perform or what the situation and how to solve the scenario. Teamwork is a common problem to deal even some are clan who like to be played as stand alone or like to brawling or rush.
Idk much how the league system work nor why does the win rate matter or how does it effect on MM anyway? No really how does it work anyway? When I've played this game (on PC) for 2 or 3 month (sorry lost tracking time) somehow I've ended to diamonds 1 anyway? Surely most base on team and/or luck? My perform wasn't great until now even before the bash bot was introduced. Mostly its come from learning the tactic and strategic way to outcome the scenario, like those guys in the video. Some of they maybe pay to win but some are not, some of them have a lot of experience and play more longer even though pay but who know?
However like I said everything base or trials and error. But you play better by learning and trying new thing from trials and error. You got a milestone ahead of you
Although how much I hate people who pay to win, but sometime I enjoy playing this no matter I hate it or love it. But I try not the league of the state current distracted. So can you and that is up to you....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2017 15:40:00 GMT -5
So, like...what's some better and more useful advice that's different, or counter to what's already pushed out on these forums? Toward new players, something along the lines of any of the following: "If you don't intend on spending any money, stick to two or three slots and try out all of the weapons, or experiment with the Ag bots, they're all pretty serviceable at higher levels, even though they aren't as good at specific tasks as premium bots. Don't spend any gold until you have around 6 or 7k, as a full hangar costs 6k for slots 4 and 5. You'll want to keep your hangar small and strong because there are several malicious players that use high level gear in newbie territories to farm for resources. Keeping your hangar small cuts into their profits, and you wont have to waste a full 6-8 minutes against them. Keeping your hangar "cheap" and small reduces the repair penalty at the end of the match, so you'll have an easier time saving up resources. There is no easy way to back down from league ranking, so rushing ahead will have you fighting more and more bots that you don't have access to, while getting you less resources overall through your journey. You can't control other players on your team, so play what you enjoy. Youtubers have been playing for years, and have put lots of money into the game over time, don't rush to be like them."
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Post by shakingrabbit on Oct 14, 2017 15:43:52 GMT -5
I agree. I've been clarifying my advice with "if the goal is to advance in leagues". What I have not been deen doing is clarifying that advancing in leagues does not necessarily equate a better play experience or skill level. We should be doing better at this as a community.
In the current game, on android at least, I suggested to a newer player that the 5th slot was not as important in the lower tiers. I was expecting to get jumped on for that one but there was no outcry so I think forumites are starting to come around that the game is much different from before, especially for a noob coming up through the ranks.
Glad to see you're back and in a better state of mind about the whole thing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2017 15:49:28 GMT -5
javelinaut717League score is the accumulation of pointa that you recieve according to your placement on the team at the end of a match. Points gained are almost exclusively rated on damage scores. Pushing high grade damage every match will promote you, even if you lose every game. This chokes your overall resource gain, and as such, the less resources you have when you start climbing, the worse your situation will be. The rage in the OP has a very specific target, and it's the "set-in-stone" go-to advice that members who have NOT experienced what being a new player in the current iterations of the game, give. Welcome to the forums.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2017 15:53:31 GMT -5
I agree. I've been clarifying my advice with "if the goal is to advance in leagues". What I have not been deen doing is clarifying that advancing in leagues does not necessarily equate a better play experience or skill level. We should be doing better at this as a community. In the current game, on android at least, I suggested to a newer player that the 5th slot was not as important in the lower tiers. I was expecting to get jumped on for that one but there was no outcry so I think forumites are starting to come around that the game is much different from before, especially for a noob coming up through the ranks. Glad to see you're back and in a better state of mind about the whole thing. In lower tiers, all loading up more than 3 slots with heavy bots does, is make new players walking bags of silver for sandbaggers while pushing them further into stiffer levels of average competition in terms of gear. Pre leagues it was as simple as "just buy a new one" to get out of overwhelming competition to gather resources OR experiment with different bots/sets. Those two things need to be emphasized early on with the league based MM, as there is no going back without being brutalized, or actively playing to NOT play. The best content to come out of YTers in the passed couple of days is actually Adriannn playing with ALL of the light and medium robots. While Adrian is easily the most Vanilla youtuber in my eyes, I will never deny his skill. The numbers he pulled with "sub par" gear make me feel, with utter confidence, that there are no wasted upgrades as long as the player actually learns to play. Because of this, we need to ditch the old stigmas of cramming heavy bots down people's throats, and make what advancement in the leagues means apparent. No matter which way you slice it a casual player spending on premium (which is the most reasonable purchase in game) has a long journey ahead of them. We as a community are here to try to make that journey enjoyable
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Post by karlhungus on Oct 14, 2017 15:56:17 GMT -5
Were not talking about the elephant in the room: Ah yeah, this. I'm a two month old player. I've read your guides and many others. It's not the relentless progression pushing me to a pit of despair its the constant clubbing by maxed hangars that starts in silver 3. I've just about hit 9/10 with my hanger and after hitting expert I shamelessly tanked all the way to gold 3 to see if I could farm more silver (having hit that silver wall) my levels were below average in gold in fact I feel diamond is where things have become the most balanced I've seen them and also because of the prolific tanking actually where I earn most Ag as fights aren't ending in 2m because a maxed hangar is destroying everyone. If I hadn't followed some guides (and spent a not insignificant amount of cash on Au for some premium bots and speed levelling) I would have quit in silver. The honest advice for this game is "Welcome to pay2win, where we have win ratios to match any budget!"
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Post by Thunderkiss on Oct 14, 2017 16:35:47 GMT -5
You should come play in the android 6pack league.
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Post by zer00eyz on Oct 14, 2017 17:12:05 GMT -5
Yes, lets just encourage everyone to load up on griffins and leos and drop back onto bronze every chance they get. Lets tell every new player to pay up or shut up. Lets do absolutely nothing but ?female dog? at Pix with out fingers up our ?bum-bum?. Changing the methodology of advice here has one purpose, and one purpose alone: minimizing the impact of what we cannot control. Yes, we can spam emails with well constructed criticisms and derogatory ?poo-poo? storms all day, but we still do not control their actions, and we never will. We'll directly impact Pix when the hobos on the street corner make walmart change it's business practices. Promoting a slower growth through the league system is what we can do, right now, to improve the experience of new players before they get in over their head. Losing 2-3 bots and a couple of minutes to a sandbagging ?poo-poo? pie is better than fighting a losing battle for 8 minutes, just to get pushed even HIGHER. Unlike Gepard clubbing, there is no effective setup to jump into that placates the circumstance. Everyone who's just starting out in silver 3 with a bunch of 6/3 heavy bots IS THE WALKING SILVER THESE ?roast beef? WAFFLES ARE FARMING. Low HP totals and less bots means less Ag for those that need to feel like they're the best player while being nothing but lazy, bottom feeding trash. If lower leagues were filled with ACTUAL low level equipment, there wouldn't be any AG to farm, and these ?poo place?s would have to go into the LQ to farm newbies. Currently, even the non sandbaggers have at least 400k health in their lineup right out of newbie leagues, thats 400k easy silver before repair costs. Lower level gear will let you take the ?bum-bum? whoopin quickly and move on, while screwing over the carpet cleaner's Ag gains. While sandbaggers are going down, we're actively encouraging sets that make newbies a bunch of low lying fruit ripe for the picking. This is about where we are right now as a community, being absolutly nothing but torches, pitchforks and lamentations IS NOT why I stay here, nor why I take the time to write what I do. > Yes, lets just encourage everyone to load up on griffins and leos and drop back onto bronze every chance they get. We can't even have a conversation about this here, but the reality is there are quite a few players who have found happiness controlling their league score. We have had a raft of recent threads on the matter, and it is something I do myself. I would rather play at a level where diversity is an option. > Lets tell every new player to pay up or shut up. Not even sure where you came up with this one. It does seem like War Robots has become P2W so this advice might not be far off the mark. Suck it up butter cup or quit. > Lets do absolutely nothing but ?female dog? at Pix with out fingers up our ?bum-bum?. Well, one would hope that pix would listen, but apparently they won't or can't or are unwilling. But back to the advice to new players, suck it up or quit... We (the community) have tried to get pix to fix it but they won't listen. > Changing the methodology of advice here has one purpose, and one purpose alone: minimizing the impact of what we cannot control. > Promoting a slower growth through the league system is what we can do, right now, to improve the experience of new players before they get in over their head. > Lower level gear will let you take the ?bum-bum? whoopin quickly and move on, while screwing over the carpet cleaner's Ag gains. Ok, lets play out the little drama you are creating --- What your suggesting is ignoring slots, loading up garbage in your hanger and playing. Players should have hangers that will finish last quickly rather than first slowly --- Thats a great recipe if you want everyone to feel like this: "It felt like, as a player, I'd have no impact on the match outcomes whatsoever."
Lets hand out some real advice: The current system means great games are hard to come by. Level the right gear, control your league score, deal with it in the mean time -- don't worry about wins or losses and just have fun.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2017 17:42:38 GMT -5
I agree. I've been clarifying my advice with "if the goal is to advance in leagues". What I have not been deen doing is clarifying that advancing in leagues does not necessarily equate a better play experience or skill level. We should be doing better at this as a community. In the current game, on android at least, I suggested to a newer player that the 5th slot was not as important in the lower tiers. I was expecting to get jumped on for that one but there was no outcry so I think forumites are starting to come around that the game is much different from before, especially for a noob coming up through the ranks. Glad to see you're back and in a better state of mind about the whole thing. In lower tiers, all loading up more than 3 slots with heavy bots does, is make new players walking bags of silver for sandbaggers while pushing them further into stiffer levels of average competition in terms of gear. Pre leagues it was as simple as "just buy a new one" to get out of overwhelming competition to gather resources OR experiment with different bots/sets. Those two things need to be emphasized early on with the league based MM, as there is no going back without being brutalized, or actively playing to NOT play. The best content to come out of YTers in the passed couple of days is actually Adriannn playing with ALL of the light and medium robots. While Adrian is easily the most Vanilla youtuber in my eyes, I will never deny his skill. The numbers he pulled with "sub par" gear make me feel, with utter confidence, that there are no wasted upgrades as long as the player actually learns to play. Because of this, we need to ditch the old stigmas of cramming heavy bots down people's throats, and make what advancement in the leagues means apparent. No matter which way you slice it a casual player spending on premium (which is the most reasonable purchase in game) has a long journey ahead of them. We as a community are here to try to make that journey enjoyable Pre MM leagues, it made sense to go with 5 slots since you stayed in the same tier. When MM was based on hanger levels, it didn't matter if you had 4 or 5 slots since it would place you in the same type of matches. Plus back then, Rhinos, Boas, and previously Pattons if you go way back were the meta bots so they were all possible to buy wo any gold. So get another slot, and load it up w a Rhino with Tarans. But with the advent of leagues, you would be penalized for having more slots so there wouldn't be any extra chance of earning gold due to the tougher competition. This was the first mistake of giving bad advice. Second mistake was the Galahad was meta at the time, and it was only 2500 gold compared to 5th slot. I went Gareth, and then Galahad in my smurf account, and they were each worth 2 bots. In silver when you first get enough gold to buy anything, having the Gareth was a huge advantage. I tried every silver bot possible, and they all sucked. When I moved up higher and more players had tougher bots and more gold, then I needed the Galahad to replace my Gareth and again it was worth it. So simple math, 1250 Au for 2 bots, or 5K gold. Then later, spend 2500 Au or 5000 Au for 2 bots. To those saying Galahad is no longer recommended, I am using a Galahad in my Masters account and it does fine there. Sure, it's no longer the OP beast it was or considered part of the meta anymore. But it's still viable all the way up to the top if you know how to use it. I mean, what else you gonna run if you're a ftp player? 5 Ancilots? Or Griffin heavy hanger? If you come across Ancilot heavy reds, then your Griffins are toast. I think that's the kind of bad advice that is given here that's too shortsighted.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2017 18:26:06 GMT -5
zer00eyzIts a faster and more effective way of controlling ones league score than sandbagging in one form or another to "control" your league score. Calling everything but premium bots trash is killing the so called "diversity" that you are looking for by "controlling" your league score. You're playing badly, or deliberately acting in a manner to avoid promotion, but rushing into "meta" sets to float where you so desire is A-okay? Everything in the game except the wave of (rightly raged at) new content is serviceable so long as the player takes the time to learn to play. The only reason no one tries anything else is because what's been stagnating over the last year is all most people have leveled. No matter how many fundamemtal changes are made to gear, no one cares to try anything because it's time consuming to level up to the point theyve stagnated at in the leagues. The only reason people are finding Boas and Golems serviceable in Diamond league+ is because someone went against the grain to actually try using them, and spent the time leveling them. The only reason people are still using Galahads is because they want to. These bots are often mocked in the face of the meta as being completely useless. A great deal of the gear in this game gets called trash level and useless, even if it has no direct parralels. Most of this comes from outdated experience with said items, and people taking a page out of Pixo's book with going strictly by the numbers. Most players aren't going to drop hundreds+ into the game on a whim, for these players FREE RESOURCES are the core driver to their advancement in the game. Suppressing your hangar when you're brand-spanking new, with 2-3 significantly leveled bots will give you: Items that will always be there and leveled Stabilization at a relatively low league rating. Ag earnings that rival 4+ leagues up. Decent Au earnings while stabilized. Minimal interaction with people that are "controlling" their league rating to beat on less experienced players with gear that the newer players lack the tools to counter. They are the exceptions, the moment we start to make this kind of thought the norm, the worse it's going to get overall. Low level gameplay is MEANT to be filled with low level items and players, the part where everyone is jumping into 100k+ HP bots as soon as they can is the EXACT thing that makes them Ag Pinatas, ripe for the picking. Having someone level a Golem/Boa to 9 because it'll net more Ag per game, and they aren't going to be able to afford a lance for the better part of the next 6 months anyway, is hardly a waste. Leveling up weapons has yet to be proven a waste, all I see is a bunch of ?female dog?ing from people that think they should always be right, and consistently talk down on others because of their self righteous attitudes, regardless of the changes in the state of the game. The game is a framework of entertainment created by a someone else, either we examine what it has turned into, and promote ways to circuvent the standing issues, or we get super salty and talk about conspiracy theories all day. We're propogating the social side of the problem. And I refuse to take part in those thought processes explicitly because of how bad Gep clubbing got after I split the old MM. If you haven't tried it as it is now, you've no right to speak on it like you created it yourself. I'm sure everyone who knows my name knows good and damn well that my entire game experience, the entirety of the playtime and forum time I've put into War Robots, has been trying it my damn self.
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tsunkai
Destrier
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Karma: 32
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Post by tsunkai on Oct 14, 2017 21:51:46 GMT -5
I guess I am the poster child for the op. I am in the diamond league with 6/8 hangar for the most part. I got the griffins 3 and won a Leo and boa. And up I went even when I lost I went up eventually I started seeing hangars close to or max and I could not compare unless I was very crafty and lucky even then sometimes the DB ate me. Now I am trapped here I have been trying new gear and mechs but none really compare to heavies. Mediums are just as slow and fragile. I don't have gold or wsp cause I won't spend until I know this new system they are pushing. I have seen the new op content and really given a choice between a golem/vityaz and haichi? Hydra versus ember? Scourge versus gecko? Tempest versus nashorn? No I am stuck unless I try to lose I ride the rubber band lose versus higher win versus gold go no where get 4-6 rank minimum tickets and no gold but dailies. Going to bronze and getting ten gold a win and 5 tickets looks more and more necessary cause of the grind to get any thing. I posted this before the math is simple 50 wins at 5 tickets versus 50 at 2 tickets. Pix rewards lavishly the tanker and penalizes the climber. Now that I have a ancilot I won I moved up to diamond two but no further.
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Post by zer00eyz on Oct 15, 2017 12:36:11 GMT -5
zer00eyz Its a faster and more effective way of controlling ones league score than sandbagging in one form or another to "control" your league score. Calling everything but premium bots trash is killing the so called "diversity" that you are looking for by "controlling" your league score. You're playing badly, or deliberately acting in a manner to avoid promotion, but rushing into "meta" sets to float where you so desire is A-okay? Everything in the game except the wave of (rightly raged at) new content is serviceable so long as the player takes the time to learn to play. The only reason no one tries anything else is because what's been stagnating over the last year is all most people have leveled. No matter how many fundamemtal changes are made to gear, no one cares to try anything because it's time consuming to level up to the point theyve stagnated at in the leagues. The only reason people are finding Boas and Golems serviceable in Diamond league+ is because someone went against the grain to actually try using them, and spent the time leveling them. The only reason people are still using Galahads is because they want to. These bots are often mocked in the face of the meta as being completely useless. A great deal of the gear in this game gets called trash level and useless, even if it has no direct parralels. Most of this comes from outdated experience with said items, and people taking a page out of Pixo's book with going strictly by the numbers. Most players aren't going to drop hundreds+ into the game on a whim, for these players FREE RESOURCES are the core driver to their advancement in the game. Suppressing your hangar when you're brand-spanking new, with 2-3 significantly leveled bots will give you: Items that will always be there and leveled Stabilization at a relatively low league rating. Ag earnings that rival 4+ leagues up. Decent Au earnings while stabilized. Minimal interaction with people that are "controlling" their league rating to beat on less experienced players with gear that the newer players lack the tools to counter. They are the exceptions, the moment we start to make this kind of thought the norm, the worse it's going to get overall. Low level gameplay is MEANT to be filled with low level items and players, the part where everyone is jumping into 100k+ HP bots as soon as they can is the EXACT thing that makes them Ag Pinatas, ripe for the picking. Having someone level a Golem/Boa to 9 because it'll net more Ag per game, and they aren't going to be able to afford a lance for the better part of the next 6 months anyway, is hardly a waste. Leveling up weapons has yet to be proven a waste, all I see is a bunch of ?female dog?ing from people that think they should always be right, and consistently talk down on others because of their self righteous attitudes, regardless of the changes in the state of the game. The game is a framework of entertainment created by a someone else, either we examine what it has turned into, and promote ways to circuvent the standing issues, or we get super salty and talk about conspiracy theories all day. We're propogating the social side of the problem. And I refuse to take part in those thought processes explicitly because of how bad Gep clubbing got after I split the old MM. If you haven't tried it as it is now, you've no right to speak on it like you created it yourself. I'm sure everyone who knows my name knows good and damn well that my entire game experience, the entirety of the playtime and forum time I've put into War Robots, has been trying it my damn self. This is some of the most incoherent trash I have ever seen on here- Your literally raving like a lunatic into your keyboard. > Its a faster and more effective way of controlling ones league score than sandbagging in one form or another to "control" your league score. Not going to argue this, it is also a great way to remain completely ineffective. It is a great way to finish last win or loss. > Calling everything but premium bots trash is killing the so called "diversity" that you are looking for by "controlling" your league score. No clue where you got this one, grifs are still rather popular and effective. > You're playing badly, or deliberately acting in a manner to avoid promotion, but rushing into "meta" sets to float where you so desire is A-okay? I can adjust my hanger to stay in a league, it is no different then "skipping" slots. > Everything in the game except the wave of (rightly raged at) new content is serviceable so long as the player takes the time to learn to play. Serviceable isn't good. Serviceable comes from over leveling stuff to an extreme to make it relevant to the league your in. I can make a level 10/11 Patton serviceable with geckos or aphids. It becomes map specific, and low viability to take me further. > The only reason no one tries anything else is because what's been stagnating over the last year is all most people have leveled. No matter how many fundamemtal changes are made to gear, no one cares to try anything because it's time consuming to level up to the point theyve stagnated at in the leagues. What the hell are you talking about? Lots of people try LOTS of things, the problem is they aren't effective, or they don't work. Right now there is a thread on the home page lamenting the fall of the trident. People praising zeus fury builds in recent days. Things change, the meta shifts, we find things that work and adapt. >A great deal of the gear in this game gets called trash level and useless, even if it has no direct parralels. Most of this comes from outdated experience with said items, and people taking a page out of Pixo's book with going strictly by the numbers. Uhhh... the only things that I see as universally derided are noricums and zenits. Weapons like the trident are a bit past their prime, still serviceable but less effective with the current mix of maps. After the first punisher buff people started talking about them (this was before double damage to shields) -- > Most players aren't going to drop hundreds+ into the game on a whim, for these players FREE RESOURCES are the core driver to their advancement in the game. Yea, 80 days to get a 5th slot. In that time you can earn yourself a stalker, or a carnage, or something else. Both are serviceable bots, both get recommended for what they are. We tell folks to avoid rajins or fujins --- the rhino is somewhere in between as it is still hard to pilot but can be effective in the right hands assuming you level it. Orkins and lances are great investments... plasma has proven to be a good investment. If all you have is free resources then minimizing waste is the primary issue! > Suppressing your hangar when you're brand-spanking new, with 2-3 significantly leveled bots will give you: Nothing, throw a cosack in your 5 slot and get the same effect. > Items that will always be there and leveled This is always true, no matter what items you have leveled. The problem is if you waste time leveling the wrong items. I don't understand how you have been around as long s you have and can only put up a 6-6/7 hanger? > Stabilization at a relatively low league rating. > Ag earnings that rival 4+ leagues up. > Decent Au earnings while stabilized. > Minimal interaction with people that are "controlling" their league rating to beat on less experienced players with gear that the newer players lack the tools to counter. Wow, ok... where is this mythical place? Private league? In the very example you gave, the one that broke you, your were fighting an over leveled player who was in SILVER. How is fewer slots vs that player going to get you anything? A faster loss? How is that more silver, how is that more gold? What in the hell are you talking about? > They are the exceptions, the moment we start to make this kind of thought the norm, the worse it's going to get overall. What the hell are you talking about? > Low level gameplay is MEANT to be filled with low level items and players, the part where everyone is jumping into 100k+ HP bots as soon as they can is the EXACT thing that makes them Ag Pinatas, ripe for the picking. > Having someone level a Golem/Boa to 9 because it'll net more Ag per game, and they aren't going to be able to afford a lance for the better part of the next 6 months anyway, is hardly a waste. You want someone who is free to play to waste their time leveling things that aren't remotely in the meta? Your suggesting that someone take these bots to level 9... the hanger from the video you put up didn't have a single level 9 item in it? > If you haven't tried it as it is now, you've no right to speak on it like you created it yourself. I'm sure everyone who knows my name knows good and damn well that my entire game experience, the entirety of the playtime and forum time I've put into War Robots, has been trying it my damn self. Go look at my history here, and on reddit --- there is data on 50 low level paton games, 70 low level boa games, Though probably not as relevant as it used to be I can tell you that you are missing the mark on silver earnings -- your earnings follow a linear progression, costs follow a exponential curve, silver issues are unavoidable and it is a feature to get you to spend or to play more. Go look at my modeling out winner take all and predicting that we would be back to losers getting points to clear up stagnation in the game. (Winner take all was actually the period where bots were better than slots) -- Look at the hanger I have been running for the last few days -- LEVEL 6 gear - leos and griffs in android gold. Im back down from diamond, worked my way down on a high loss rate on the back of a capping hanger and a run of really bad games. I can put up a diamond 1 hanger, I can put up a hanger that lets me hang vs champs (not do well but hang in there and I have). Here is the reality: Build a meta hanger, get some gear to 9 -- then decide if you want to MOVE UP or STAY PUT --- get yourself out of gold and silver leagues if your on android, because they are hell pits of tankers, and terrible players. Find some folks to squad with (hell join the merc's channel here and squad with me if your on android, and there are IOS folks there as well) --- and for the love of god stop giving out the advice your preaching right now. Not only is it bad but your lacking context from higher levels, and different gear, your lacking data to prove out what you think would happen. As for the community NOT reviewing its recommendations, well IDFK what to tell you. No one says "get a TT fury" no one says "lances are king" -- Most have changed their POV on rhinos and punishers. We have adapted with the changing times and the advice has changed with it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2017 13:16:49 GMT -5
Alrighty. Rush ahead, buy Griffins and meta sets asap, put really low level bots in slots to drop leagues and fade when you can't compete. As opposed to play what you want, don't add extra bots to your hangar until the ones you have are a decent level so you DON'T NEED to fade.
Got it.
Anything else oh wise one?
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Post by northempire on Oct 15, 2017 13:32:47 GMT -5
With the vitriol on the forums, and the genuine unfun I've been having on my Gold 1 account, I needed to step away for a bit and reevaluate why I stay on these forums and whether I really find enjoyment in this game anymore. Unfortunately that meant deleting TinTheFiend, as I do have an addictive personality type (thank goodness I'm a cheap basted) and it was the only way I was going to be able to do so. I am also staying away from my Gold league account, as without sandbagging(or spending hundreds in RM), there is no positive outlook for it. Earlier this year I swung for the 5th slot, and loaded them up with the only non-premium meta bot (Griffin) with meta Sets (DB/PDB/Punisher). Au production came to a screeching halt. Ag earnings were lower than they were in bronze league. Matches became generally un-fun. It felt like, as a player, I'd have no impact on the match outcomes whatsoever. Every match made me feel woefully underpowered, just to see my name at the top of the charts at the end of the round. That, in turn, just made it gradually worse, it would literally take two days worth of casual play time to get enough Ag to level something from 6 to 7. Even then, the competition would get stiffer with every match, while it takes weeks of grinding to see a marginal improvement in my own hangar. It locks one into said hangar too, as trying anything lighter is met with Max Treb fire. Here is a match to exemplify. The ENTIRE TEAM was Griffins on spawn. Everything I did felt low impact. A full DB out DPS'd by an Ork Rog. Having 0 push power because my weapons are barely chewing into my opponents, while theirs evaporate my bots. A game which felt utterly terrible, but which is the average result in me VS MM. I can't embrace the suck, because gameplay like this IS WHAT I CONSTITUTE AS SUCKING. Moral of the story: We as a community need to promote the fun aspects of the game to people that seek our guidance. Rushing to meta status to try to compete with people that have been around for years/spent thousands of dollars is toxic to the experience and creates more hostilities throughout the community. People listen to us, and the youtubers, but rarely is there any mention of the months or money, we, as role models for the community, have already put into our accounts. Many of these people have been in the game for no more than a couple of weeks, we are NOT making their experience better by rushing them into the upper echelons. that's deep... And a solid statement...
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Post by northempire on Oct 15, 2017 13:35:18 GMT -5
Welcome back Never left my friend, as I said, I’m taking a ‘step back’. While I’m not playing at the moment, I think the principles of coaching still give me enough insight to comment o) this thread you can still play for the daily gold reward sir...
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Post by zer00eyz on Oct 15, 2017 15:25:07 GMT -5
Alrighty. Rush ahead, buy Griffins and meta sets asap, put really low level bots in slots to drop leagues and fade when you can't compete. As opposed to play what you want, don't add extra bots to your hangar until the ones you have are a decent level so you DON'T NEED to fade. Got it. Anything else oh wise one? Fade? You realize that it is entirely possible to play your way DOWN the league system as well as you can play up. I went from D2 to G1 with a 62% win rate (or better), I went back to D2 with %50 --- Now? I'm back in Gold with a horrid win rate --- because I literally decided to play level 6 gear, and/or bad capping setups or what ever I chose. You literally have no idea what your talking about. Your examples are nonsense, your advice is even worse. Not only are you making suggestions that will provide little satisfaction but won't do the player who takes them any good in the long run. Your limiting their flexibility. You had a small meltdown, one that had you deleting your own account because for what ever reason you couldn't deal with it. Now your back and more bitter than ever to the point where your posts are rambling nonsense and your retorts are now childish rants. If you want to have a coherent conversation about this topic, Im happy to oblige you but take a deep breath and think before you type.
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Post by hyderier on Oct 15, 2017 15:39:39 GMT -5
I guess I am the poster child for the op. I am in the diamond league with 6/8 hangar for the most part. I got the griffins 3 and won a Leo and boa. And up I went even when I lost I went up eventually I started seeing hangars close to or max and I could not compare unless I was very crafty and lucky even then sometimes the DB ate me. Now I am trapped here I have been trying new gear and mechs but none really compare to heavies. Mediums are just as slow and fragile. I don't have gold or wsp cause I won't spend until I know this new system they are pushing. I have seen the new op content and really given a choice between a golem/vityaz and haichi? Hydra versus ember? Scourge versus gecko? Tempest versus nashorn? No I am stuck unless I try to lose I ride the rubber band lose versus higher win versus gold go no where get 4-6 rank minimum tickets and no gold but dailies. Going to bronze and getting ten gold a win and 5 tickets looks more and more necessary cause of the grind to get any thing. I posted this before the math is simple 50 wins at 5 tickets versus 50 at 2 tickets. Pix rewards lavishly the tanker and penalizes the climber. Now that I have a ancilot I won I moved up to diamond two but no further. I have one piece of advice for you: go for beacons. After you figure it out, you get 5 Au on wins, and will not be top 2 on losses. Good silver bots are Cossack and Griffin. For WSP you can use Stalker or Rhino. For Au there is Gepard, Gareth and Rog. Get the Rog (Gareth and Gepard are almost wasted Au today, sad as it is). Cap beacons with it. Arm it, in order of progression, with Tulus, Tarans and finally Orkans. And remeber, your goal is to get 5 Au for beacons. Play like nothing else really matters. You gotta get most beacons in your team, and then hopefully achieve victory, probably through this beacon control, because you will not contribute decisive damage.
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