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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 12:49:07 GMT -5
With the vitriol on the forums, and the genuine unfun I've been having on my Gold 1 account, I needed to step away for a bit and reevaluate why I stay on these forums and whether I really find enjoyment in this game anymore. Unfortunately that meant deleting TinTheFiend, as I do have an addictive personality type (thank goodness I'm a cheap basted) and it was the only way I was going to be able to do so. I am also staying away from my Gold league account, as without sandbagging(or spending hundreds in RM), there is no positive outlook for it.
Earlier this year I swung for the 5th slot, and loaded them up with the only non-premium meta bot (Griffin) with meta Sets (DB/PDB/Punisher).
Au production came to a screeching halt.
Ag earnings were lower than they were in bronze league.
Matches became generally un-fun. It felt like, as a player, I'd have no impact on the match outcomes whatsoever. Every match made me feel woefully underpowered, just to see my name at the top of the charts at the end of the round. That, in turn, just made it gradually worse, it would literally take two days worth of casual play time to get enough Ag to level something from 6 to 7. Even then, the competition would get stiffer with every match, while it takes weeks of grinding to see a marginal improvement in my own hangar. It locks one into said hangar too, as trying anything lighter is met with Max Treb fire.
Here is a match to exemplify. The ENTIRE TEAM was Griffins on spawn. Everything I did felt low impact. A full DB out DPS'd by an Ork Rog. Having 0 push power because my weapons are barely chewing into my opponents, while theirs evaporate my bots. A game which felt utterly terrible, but which is the average result in me VS MM. I can't embrace the suck, because gameplay like this IS WHAT I CONSTITUTE AS SUCKING.
Moral of the story: We as a community need to promote the fun aspects of the game to people that seek our guidance. Rushing to meta status to try to compete with people that have been around for years/spent thousands of dollars is toxic to the experience and creates more hostilities throughout the community.
People listen to us, and the youtubers, but rarely is there any mention of the months or money, we, as role models for the community, have already put into our accounts. Many of these people have been in the game for no more than a couple of weeks, we are NOT making their experience better by rushing them into the upper echelons.
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bluestreak
Destrier
Posts: 77
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Pilot name: Blue Streak
Platform: Facebook
Clan: Devil's Empire
League: Champion
Favorite robot: Bulgasari
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Post by bluestreak on Oct 13, 2017 13:01:21 GMT -5
Yep... it's the way the game forces your to buy VIP status. Ag payout in bronze league IS higher when I was using just light and medium bots. So that's why I was asking about Ag gained calculation but apparently it is some arcane formula that no one knows about.
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Post by NokiaSåmsung on Oct 13, 2017 13:03:41 GMT -5
1. That is a rant ?
2. Its not the advises that suck, its really what Pix has done to the game that is causing your discontents
So, perhaps it'll be more um...morally correct (?) to direct your anger at Pix rather than on the people giving advice.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 13:05:28 GMT -5
I'm not big fan of 5th slot first. It moves you up a league, and makes getting Au and Ag worse.
Yea, get some Orkans first. I would also recommend Galahad or Gareth, they are still tough bots down in Gold1.
I'm still a 4 slot hanger in my smurf account. I usually run 1 or 2 Galahads (won from event spinning), 1 DB Griffin, 1 RDB Griffin, and maybe a plasma Rhino, Griffin, or Thunder Leo.
I'm beginning to run a Punisher heavy line-up. You may have seen some of my threads. I would say you do need a different mindset to run them effectively, and I was not utilizing Punishers to the fullest before. Same with Molots. And after a few days of having them in my line up, and more importantly trying to improve my tactics, my games are better with them and my avg dmg is going up. I'm running 2x Punisher Griffin, Molot Griffin, and DB Griffin. All weapons at 7.
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Post by ᎶƦ℮℮ƊᎽ ƤΛƝƊΛ on Oct 13, 2017 13:12:49 GMT -5
I made a similar post a few days ago expressing the same viewpoints. I couldn't agree more. The game beats down skilled players that aren't willing to fork over thousands. I also started a new account a while back and it wasn't more than two weeks from starting the account that I was outmatched and in a state of never being able to compete unless I tanked.
If you are good at the game, no matter what hangar you use, you're going to be on the top half of your team more often than not. And usually in one of the top two. This all but gaurantees a steady climb through the leagues all the way to the top, no matter how weak your hangar is. I've recently discovered that you basically need your entire hangar AT LEAST 5 levels below the norm for your current league in order to stop climbing.
And while you can continue to do average damage compared to your teammates, can you fathom how meaningless your contribution is to the overall outcome of the game with such a weak hangar? The fact that the current matchmaker forces skilled players to severely handicap themselves to keep from climbing at a ridiculous pace is terrible for said players.
I believe in having somewhat of an ELO matchmaker, because basing it entirely on hangar strength was absurd in my opinion. There's no reason a player of my skill level should be able to field a 4/4 hangar and pound on noobs for easy Au and Ag. But there's also no reason for me at 7/7 to be in Champions. Yet here we are.
I'm not sure if anyone has suggested this, but what about a hybrid matchmaker? That first sets people into tiers based on their hangar strength, similar to how it used to be, THEN matches people within that tier based on their ELO rating. This means that in most cases, people with high skill will be matched against other players with high skill, regardless of what strength hangar they choose to field. Just another suggestion that Pixonic will never consider, but what else are we here for?
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Post by valoricus on Oct 13, 2017 13:13:38 GMT -5
Wow. Many of those gold pilots have higher level bots and gear than I do in expert.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 13:26:19 GMT -5
1. That is a rant ? 2. Its not the advises that suck, its really what Pix has done to the game that is causing your discontents So, perhaps it'll be more um...morally correct (?) to direct your anger at Pix rather than on the people giving advice. Nope, not every critical analysis of previous information is a rant. The game has changed, whether we like it or not. Our advice is for a game that no longer exists. It is Pixo's game, we just play it, a lot of people would do well to remember that. I have been a purveyor of the age old forum steel cast advice for a long time, and I will say it again, it is out dated. Many people complain about the utter imbalance of the MM, but whats the first piece of advice anyone that asks here gets about hangars? Jump into griffins/leos with Rockets/Plasma right out the gate. This is what baloons league scores early, and what pushes newer players to the wall where it's either quit, sandbag, or drop gratuitous RM. If all new players that inform themselves at all, do this, what do you think throws the game awry? If the advice leads to a bad play experience, it's the community's job to ammend it. No one has been more vocal about Pix for as long as I have, and very few have gone into such detail as I have. Outside of the latest price gouging, the game as a whole was fine. Most of the grief outside of the BM/Component failure is from people that follow advice on the forums, and equally ancient equipment advice from youtubers, who new players will usually NOT attribute their hangars/gear to YEARS worth of playing and undisclosed amounts of RM spent. Instead, they'll aspire to be like them,and like us, ASAP. They rush to a wall where they can't earn anything, can't play anything off meta without a paddlin, and rob themselves of an organic experience in game. We should be giving people advice NOT to rush ahead with slots and individual "meta" sets, and should be encouraging a more organic experience. When every study says that a certain popular excersize form leads to injury, should the fitness community blame the study, the excersize, or ammend their methodology to accommodate the theoretical fact? Which one of them is a logical decision? We on the forums have done the prior for the longest time, in spite of the MAJOR FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES of the the game. Many of the higher level players have evaporated, and those that remain know VERY LITTLE about the new player experience, instead chalking up everything that comes out of their mouth as fact because it worked for them in previous iterations of the game, under different structures, in a different time. |
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Post by seanh on Oct 13, 2017 13:36:00 GMT -5
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Post by Domino on Oct 13, 2017 13:38:04 GMT -5
A few points:
You did well however War Robots has a weakness that is inherent on a game like this. It involves all players to balance out a match, as soon as you introduce a Over Powered Player, the whole balance goes out of whack. There's a threshold so you can have some imbalance but it's delicate.
MM will only get worse for you i'm afriad. Once you hit Expert, you will be constantly matched with Masters/Champions with maxed hangers at least 70-80% of the time.
You also do not want to advance leagues to fast. Get your weapons to level 9 and Bot, hover in Diamond but avoid Expert until bots/weapons are atleast 10+
Also, there's also an imbalance between bot HP and Weapon Dmg. Weeapons should be 2 levels above bot until they are both at lvl 9. Then weapons to lvl 10 or 11, then bots to 10.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 13:42:16 GMT -5
A few points: You did well however War Robots has a weakness that is inherent on a game like this. It involves all players to balance out a match, as soon as you introduce a Over Powered Player, the whole balance goes out of whack. There's a threshold so you can have some imbalance but it's delicate. MM will only get worse for you i'm afriad. Once you hit Expert, you will be constantly matched with Masters/Champions with maxed hangers at least 70-80% of the time. You also do not want to advance leagues to fast. Get your weapons to level 9 and Bot, hover in Diamond but avoid Expert until bots/weapons are atleast 10+ Also, there's also an imbalance between bot HP and Weapon Dmg. Weeapons should be 2 levels above bot until they are both at lvl 9. Then weapons to lvl 10 or 11, then bots to 10. I'm TinTheFiend if you missed it. Ive said what you just did countless times over lol. The issue with leveling further, is that it takes 2-3 days to amass the Ag necessary to kick on upgrades in this scenario (500k dmg= 147k Ag on loss). The whole point of this thread is challenging old advice, and how rushing Meta is unhealthy. |
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Post by Domino on Oct 13, 2017 13:46:24 GMT -5
I'm not big fan of 5th slot first. It moves you up a league, and makes getting Au and Ag worse. Yea, get some Orkans first. I would also recommend Galahad or Gareth, they are still tough bots down in Gold1. I'm still a 4 slot hanger in my smurf account. I usually run 1 or 2 Galahads (won from event spinning), 1 DB Griffin, 1 RDB Griffin, and maybe a plasma Rhino, Griffin, or Thunder Leo. I'm beginning to run a Punisher heavy line-up. You may have seen some of my threads. I would say you do need a different mindset to run them effectively, and I was not utilizing Punishers to the fullest before. Same with Molots. And after a few days of having them in my line up, and more importantly trying to improve my tactics, my games are better with them and my avg dmg is going up. I'm running 2x Punisher Griffin, Molot Griffin, and DB Griffin. All weapons at 7. I disagree on Gareth/Galahad. They don't do enough dmg, maybe back in the day when they could dodge rockets but not anymore. Griffin will do the dmg, need to cap beacons, get a Rhino. Don't spend an Au unless its for 5th slot or Orkans which you have. |
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Post by Domino on Oct 13, 2017 13:48:57 GMT -5
A few points: You did well however War Robots has a weakness that is inherent on a game like this. It involves all players to balance out a match, as soon as you introduce a Over Powered Player, the whole balance goes out of whack. There's a threshold so you can have some imbalance but it's delicate. MM will only get worse for you i'm afriad. Once you hit Expert, you will be constantly matched with Masters/Champions with maxed hangers at least 70-80% of the time. You also do not want to advance leagues to fast. Get your weapons to level 9 and Bot, hover in Diamond but avoid Expert until bots/weapons are atleast 10+ Also, there's also an imbalance between bot HP and Weapon Dmg. Weeapons should be 2 levels above bot until they are both at lvl 9. Then weapons to lvl 10 or 11, then bots to 10. I'm TinTheFiend if you missed it. Ive said what you just did countless times over lol. The issue with leveling further, is that it takes 2-3 days to amass the Ag necessary to kick on upgrades in this scenario (500k dmg= 147k Ag on loss). The whole point of this thread is challenging old advice, and how rushing Meta is unhealthy. Good to have you back! I'm sure this has been discussed many time over, nothing new here. Should have a FAQ section |
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Post by ezekielcrow on Oct 13, 2017 13:50:22 GMT -5
That's sage advice. I joined these forums rather recently. Glad youre still around and hope you do keep people like me pointed in the right direction. If anything, non noobs are more prone to sticking to a certain mindset and need course corrections from time to time.
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Post by Domino on Oct 13, 2017 13:56:00 GMT -5
I'm not big fan of 5th slot first. It moves you up a league, and makes getting Au and Ag worse. Yea, get some Orkans first. I would also recommend Galahad or Gareth, they are still tough bots down in Gold1. I'm still a 4 slot hanger in my smurf account. I usually run 1 or 2 Galahads (won from event spinning), 1 DB Griffin, 1 RDB Griffin, and maybe a plasma Rhino, Griffin, or Thunder Leo. I'm beginning to run a Punisher heavy line-up. You may have seen some of my threads. I would say you do need a different mindset to run them effectively, and I was not utilizing Punishers to the fullest before. Same with Molots. And after a few days of having them in my line up, and more importantly trying to improve my tactics, my games are better with them and my avg dmg is going up. I'm running 2x Punisher Griffin, Molot Griffin, and DB Griffin. All weapons at 7. Your moving up leagues because you're able to dish our more dmg because you have more bots to do so. That is not a bad thing however instead of going after the high dmg builds, make your 5th slot a fun build. However if you want to get more competition, build up that 5th slot and move up. It's such a long road (a bit better now with chests and leagues bonus) |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 13:59:51 GMT -5
A few points: You did well however War Robots has a weakness that is inherent on a game like this. It involves all players to balance out a match, as soon as you introduce a Over Powered Player, the whole balance goes out of whack. There's a threshold so you can have some imbalance but it's delicate. MM will only get worse for you i'm afriad. Once you hit Expert, you will be constantly matched with Masters/Champions with maxed hangers at least 70-80% of the time. You also do not want to advance leagues to fast. Get your weapons to level 9 and Bot, hover in Diamond but avoid Expert until bots/weapons are atleast 10+ Also, there's also an imbalance between bot HP and Weapon Dmg. Weeapons should be 2 levels above bot until they are both at lvl 9. Then weapons to lvl 10 or 11, then bots to 10. I'm TinTheFiend if you missed it. Ive said what you just did countless times over lol. The issue with leveling further, is that it takes 2-3 days to amass the Ag necessary to kick on upgrades in this scenario (500k dmg= 147k Ag on loss). The whole point of this thread is challenging old advice, and how rushing Meta is unhealthy. I agree. It's hard to challenge old advice, because people treat it like it's sacred. This is just a game, so there's no reason to stick to old tenets. But if you try to challenge it, the most usual response is Champions know better or they don't look at the evidence. |
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Post by llama4president on Oct 13, 2017 14:04:27 GMT -5
Welcome Back Tinthefiend Redfiend ! It was sad to see you disappear suddenly and without a word, or a post, or a reason you would leave. I'm not joking, it implied that you were so angry that you didn't say even a goodbye, and that felt sad. I am using 2 galahads right now, one plasma and one with punishers. Both, are really still fun to play, they are the only bot i really excel at driving, and the risk i have at being literally melted by rocket explosion is making me better at detecting rockets BEFORE i get shot. I know it's out of meta, but galahad is strategically fun. The lancelot is the least fun of my bots, really boring, can last half a battle defending a beacon, but it's really NOT my style. If i can, i don't field it in a battle. I got a DB, which is meta, but i hate griffins because they are so SLOW. I would really like to replace him with something else in the future. I started experimenting a lot with several weapons. Gekkos, Hydras, Aphids, Punishers, Noricums. Maybe i'm just playing for experimenting right now, and i try every few days to field out some new config or new bot to diversify and learn new ways of playing. About Ag and Au, i stopped caring about them too. I just focus on having fun, sometime i have fun ruining other people games (Evil Grin) like hunting someone whom i feel needs to be hunted.Also i'm just upgrading low level weapons, and that lowered my needs. Efficiency, Meta (most effective tactic available), Grinding and Farming are now words that don't fit at all with how i am playing. Maybe i'm just bored, but i just play trying to find new way of fun, even in hidden parts of the game. So, i'm sad if you found the words of the forum dwellers unproductive toward Your Fun, but i do also think that through the heterogeneity of the voices i'm pretty certain that SOME have met your tastes. I therefore just invite you to consider not directing your disappointment on us as a whole, because we aren't all preaching some kind of truth. Sorry for the long post, but it's a way of mine to say welcome back  you have been missed  |
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Post by ᎶƦ℮℮ƊᎽ ƤΛƝƊΛ on Oct 13, 2017 14:04:32 GMT -5
I'm not big fan of 5th slot first. It moves you up a league, and makes getting Au and Ag worse. Yea, get some Orkans first. I would also recommend Galahad or Gareth, they are still tough bots down in Gold1. I'm still a 4 slot hanger in my smurf account. I usually run 1 or 2 Galahads (won from event spinning), 1 DB Griffin, 1 RDB Griffin, and maybe a plasma Rhino, Griffin, or Thunder Leo. I'm beginning to run a Punisher heavy line-up. You may have seen some of my threads. I would say you do need a different mindset to run them effectively, and I was not utilizing Punishers to the fullest before. Same with Molots. And after a few days of having them in my line up, and more importantly trying to improve my tactics, my games are better with them and my avg dmg is going up. I'm running 2x Punisher Griffin, Molot Griffin, and DB Griffin. All weapons at 7. Your moving up leagues because you're able to dish our more dmg because you have more bots to do so. That is not a bad thing however instead of going after the high dmg builds, make your 5th slot a fun build. However if you want to get more competition, build up that 5th slot and move up. It's such a long road (a bit better now with chests and leagues bonus) Not true. I used a 3 slot hangar on my second account and reached Diamond before getting to 7/7. Also, on my main account I current have a double Ancile Carnage and a Pin Stalker. Two bots that do essentially no damage, and my overall hangar average is about 7. Still climbing in Champion. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 14:05:21 GMT -5
DominoIt's been discussed several times over, yet many of the standing members of the community will immediately push newer players to the meta trap without hesitation. The OP being regarded as a rant is proof enough of that. Many of the threads here are various points between "PIX SHOULD MAKE THE GAME WHAT WE WANT" and "Embrace the suck". The "Pix is ruining the game" crowd are people that are adverse to change, and while some things are bad from almost every angle (BM and everything with it), a great deal of salt comes from an inability to change one's own perception. The "embrace the suck" comes from people that pushed too hard, too early, and are hit with a really bad time in terms of free/casual/light spending gameplay experience. There is rarely anything said to new folks outside of these two lines of thought, and there is very little emphasis on avoiding the scenarios that cause these mindsets. With the way the game is going. "Play whatever you like, don't worry about anything but fun" is leagues (lol) better than PLAY TO WIN SCRUB, CATCH UP TO PEOPLE PLAYING FOR YEARS AS FAST AS YOU CAN BY USING AS MUCH META CRAP AS YOU CAN AS SOON AS YOU CAN(even though you still have a year or two mimimum before getting it all leveled up) @macwarrobots I agree, and as someone that has tried to be as helpful as I could possibly be, that is why I write the articles I do, the way I do. llama4presidentI needed some breathing room to gauge up this article. It has less to do with malcontent towards the community, and is more specific to the advice we give, and have given, for a very, very long time. I have been a proprieter of said advice as much as a follower of it. What you're doing is what we need to encourage in the current state of the game, but it is not yet the go to response for inquiries from new players.
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Post by mechtout on Oct 13, 2017 14:07:43 GMT -5
Welcome back
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Post by Domino on Oct 13, 2017 14:12:35 GMT -5
1. That is a rant ? 2. Its not the advises that suck, its really what Pix has done to the game that is causing your discontents So, perhaps it'll be more um...morally correct (?) to direct your anger at Pix rather than on the people giving advice. Nope, not every critical analysis of previous information is a rant. The game has changed, whether we like it or not. Our advice is for a game that no longer exists. It is Pixo's game, we just play it, a lot of people would do well to remember that. I have been a purveyor of the age old forum steel cast advice for a long time, and I will say it again, it is out dated. Many people complain about the utter imbalance of the MM, but whats the first piece of advice anyone that asks here gets about hangars? Jump into griffins/leos with Rockets/Plasma right out the gate. This is what baloons league scores early, and what pushes newer players to the wall where it's either quit, sandbag, or drop gratuitous RM. If all new players that inform themselves at all, do this, what do you think throws the game awry? If the advice leads to a bad play experience, it's the community's job to ammend it. No one has been more vocal about Pix for as long as I have, and very few have gone into such detail as I have. Outside of the latest price gouging, the game as a whole was fine. Most of the grief outside of the BM/Component failure is from people that follow advice on the forums, and equally ancient equipment advice from youtubers, who new players will usually NOT attribute their hangars/gear to YEARS worth of playing and undisclosed amounts of RM spent. Instead, they'll aspire to be like them,and like us, ASAP. They rush to a wall where they can't earn anything, can't play anything off meta without a paddlin, and rob themselves of an organic experience in game. We should be giving people advice NOT to rush ahead with slots and individual "meta" sets, and should be encouraging a more organic experience. When every study says that a certain popular excersize form leads to injury, should the fitness community blame the study, the excersize, or ammend their methodology to accommodate the theoretical fact? Which one of them is a logical decision? We on the forums have done the prior for the longest time, in spite of the MAJOR FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES of the the game. Many of the higher level players have evaporated, and those that remain know VERY LITTLE about the new player experience, instead chalking up everything that comes out of their mouth as fact because it worked for them in previous iterations of the game, under different structures, in a different time. The old advice is still valid to a point, and I completely understand your perspective. Here's what I have done: I have a level 9 bots level 10 weapon hanger. Lance/Griffin/Rhino/Galahad/Griffin/Griffin/Carnage/Stalker. All with lvl 10 Orkans/Magnums/Tarans/etc. Meta build right? Go to Expert 1, almost into Masters but I am sick and tired of meta changing, MM against maxed hangers, new OP bots and Weapons that I can't afford (I don't care to have them, but they cause a imbalance, i'm not upset about that not owning them, but the imbalance they have created). That I made a decision to drop league in an ethical way. I put 90% of the weapons and 50% of teh bots away, using now a lvl 7 Natty, Lvl 6 Leo, Lvl 8 Griffin, Lvl 6 Patton, using level 5-9 weapons. So I have my underdog team and I play like I normally play, against guys that are much stronger than me (much more so than before) and I will be in last place 80% of the time which is moving me down, i'm at Expert 3 about to go into Diamond 1. It took me over 2 weeks however. The Ag I make are upgrading my lvl 10 weapons to get them to 11 but I will not play them for the most part!. Once I'm able to deal with Champions on a more fair playing field, I will load them into my hanger and go back up to Masters+. At the same time i'm waiting/hoping that this Dash nightmare is dealt with. I'm upgrading my Gekko's to lvl 7, running lvl 5 nori's. Lvl 8 Molots on my Griffin. Lvl 5 pinatas on my Galahad. Whatever I feel like, I really don't care if I win or lose. Just as long as I make it enjoyable. I can do this for a little while but every once in a while I get an urge to use my meta but remember the outcome and stop. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 14:31:46 GMT -5
DominoFactor in the amount of time it took you to get all of that near meta gear to level 10, then look at the current standings on earnings and the MM. Would a new player truly do right to rush to a point of equal frustrations to your 10/10 gear within the first two weeks of playing? (4 heavy bots with rockets and punishers hits silver 2 in that amount of time) The advice to what is viable in the upper echelons is sound, telling people they need to shoot as far and high as they can from "go" is the biggest mistake we've been making for quite some time now. Silver will always be a bottleneck, forcing meta bots from jump only serves to shove Au earnings into that same bottleneck, with daily tasks being no better than the bonus Ag on the first 3 wins of the day. We, as a community, need to push harder on the fun side of the game when we talk to up and comers, instead of projecting our frustrations and propogating the scenarios that caused them to begin with.
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Post by Deadeye on Oct 13, 2017 14:58:10 GMT -5
With the vitriol on the forums, and the genuine unfun I've been having on my Gold 1 account, I needed to step away for a bit and reevaluate why I stay on these forums and whether I really find enjoyment in this game anymore. Unfortunately that meant deleting TinTheFiend, as I do have an addictive personality type (thank goodness I'm a cheap basted) and it was the only way I was going to be able to do so. I am also staying away from my Gold league account, as without sandbagging(or spending hundreds in RM), there is no positive outlook for it. Earlier this year I swung for the 5th slot, and loaded them up with the only non-premium meta bot (Griffin) with meta Sets (DB/PDB/Punisher). Au production came to a screeching halt. Ag earnings were lower than they were in bronze league. Matches became generally un-fun. It felt like, as a player, I'd have no impact on the match outcomes whatsoever. Every match made me feel woefully underpowered, just to see my name at the top of the charts at the end of the round. That, in turn, just made it gradually worse, it would literally take two days worth of casual play time to get enough Ag to level something from 6 to 7. Even then, the competition would get stiffer with every match, while it takes weeks of grinding to see a marginal improvement in my own hangar. It locks one into said hangar too, as trying anything lighter is met with Max Treb fire. Here is a match to exemplify. The ENTIRE TEAM was Griffins on spawn. Everything I did felt low impact. A full DB out DPS'd by an Ork Rog. Having 0 push power because my weapons are barely chewing into my opponents, while theirs evaporate my bots. A game which felt utterly terrible, but which is the average result in me VS MM. I can't embrace the suck, because gameplay like this IS WHAT I CONSTITUTE AS SUCKING. Moral of the story: We as a community need to promote the fun aspects of the game to people that seek our guidance. Rushing to meta status to try to compete with people that have been around for years/spent thousands of dollars os toxic to the experience and creates more hostilities throughout the community. People listen to us, and the youtubers, but rarely is there any mention of the months or money, we, as role models for thr community, have already put into our account. Many of these people have been in the game for no more than a couple of weeks, we are NOT making their experience better by rushing them into the upper echelons. Wow, I guess I haven't experienced this, but it does make sense. I've been playing for a over a year and a half and, while I certainly remember a time where I was over matched in my best hanger, I could always fall back to another tier to collect resources or half fun again while working through the grind of the middle tiers. This was all before the MM changed to the league system. I haven't experienced climbing that on one of the major server systems (iOS/Android). I'm tempted to start another account just so I can speak to this issue in advice given, because I can't really now.
Thanks for broadening my perspective on this.
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Post by arakos on Oct 13, 2017 15:07:38 GMT -5
^this |
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andy3k
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Post by andy3k on Oct 13, 2017 15:19:32 GMT -5
I'm one of those newbies following "advice and tips". I'm not a l33t player. I play for free/casual and I've been at it about a week. I appreciate any knowledge shared. Despite the load-out schemes described in advice, I am a thinking person capable of planning my own purchases and upgrades. It's nice to have guidelines, though.
I think matchmaker is the problem, not the advice. I just played a game that caused enormous frustration. There have been other games like it but this one was so bad it caused me to want to post it. The top three on my team in terms of damage, kills, and beacon caps were all running silver bots level 3-6 with silver weapons level 3-6. The top three on the red team were running gold/WP bots level 8-11 with gold/WP weapons level 8-11. You know what's worse? Even though we lost, I did the most damage and second most kills and caps, which means I'm probably not moving down in "league points" and will probably keep seeing similar matches. I'm all for a challenge but that is just crazy. That doesn't make me want to pay RM for good gear, that makes me want to quit and play a game where I am matched more fairly. I will keep playing for now, hoping this changes, unless the matches become consistently unfun.
Solutions:
As I understand it, there used to be tiers based on weapon and bot strength. Now there are leagues based on wins and battle standings (damage and caps). I think the next iteration of matchmaker should be a hybrid of both. Calculate my gear rating, then match my wins/standings with others of similar gear rating. Sure I might occasionally get matched with or against one or two folks with noticeably higher ratings than me, but nothing like today's crazy mismatch. Also, I think the formula for matchmaking should allow for more time to put together teams. I'm willing to wait a whole 60 seconds for a game with a proper match up rather than instant gratification of a 15 second match up that stinks as badly as silver L6 vs gold L11.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 15:21:26 GMT -5
I try to be pretty open minded, but when people ask the forum for our advice, usually they want to know what is a better, more effective build. Telling someone a Spydra Griff is the way to go over an RDB, or to level up gekkos, or to use Kang Dae.... its all still bad advice, regardless of whether it causes people to rise in leagues.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 15:30:55 GMT -5
andy3k There has been no official announcement in terms of any fundamental changes to the matchmaker any time in the immediate future. The whole point of all this is that old heads try to lean toward helping new people like you find what you like, instead of pushing the advice from pre-Leagues. Right now MM is especially rocky under the assumption that average player activity has lessened due to the current issues with components, and the uproar at all levels of play against Pixonic. For instancr, if a majority of players in silver 1/Gold 3 stopped playing, while the new hotness is pushing down on other people starting at Champ league, the spots will eventually be filled from the top instead of the bottom, causing more legit players down the ladder. That, and the sandbaggers that come in two flavors: people that went semipro, and can't get resources to advance at their highest level of play (in part to advice such as ours), and people that need to stroke their e-peen because they can't find their real one. As I said, we can moan all we want, but if the community doesn't adapt their ideals, they can't help new people, and end up creating more salt.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 15:34:55 GMT -5
I try to be pretty open minded, but when people ask the forum for our advice, usually they want to know what is a better, more effective build. Telling someone a Spydra Griff is the way to go over an RDB, or to level up gekkos, or to use Kang Dae.... its all still bad advice, regardless of whether it causes people to rise in leagues. Tell them to play what they enjoy, and be knowledgable on what each weapon does in comparison to others, so that you may assist them in finding what they enjoy. If they insist that they want META, make them aware that its a long, LONG road to get to the top, and the grind will be soul crushing at times. Flat out ending the conversation with "Get a DB/RDB/PDB" needs to stop. We need to actually converse with the newer folk to flesh out what they really want, not just what they think they want. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 15:52:44 GMT -5
You're a good dude and that's a very thoughtful approach Redfiend. Hope the mods give you some green paint again on your name so newer folk know they can trust your counsel. Now, go get yourself a RDB. |
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Post by DarkVagabond on Oct 13, 2017 16:24:24 GMT -5
1. That is a rant ? 2. Its not the advises that suck, its really what Pix has done to the game that is causing your discontents So, perhaps it'll be more um...morally correct (?) to direct your anger at Pix rather than on the people giving advice. If the advice leads to a bad play experience, it's the community's job to ammend it. No one has been more vocal about Pix for as long as I have, and very few have gone into such detail as I have. We should be giving people advice NOT to rush ahead with slots and individual "meta" sets, and should be encouraging a more organic experience. On these points I tend to disagree. Whenever someone is seeking advice, the responsibility lies first and foremost with the seeker. Everyone’s play style is different - as a forum we can’t possibly know exactly what type of player someone is. There is not just one way to play this game. The first responsibility must lie with the seeker, since they must have enough self awareness to know what sort of player they are (or would like to be), what they’re wanting to get out of the game and whose advice is most helpful to test out for their given situation. That’s not to say that we aren’t culpable as well. I do agree there should be certain things we should recommend or caution against, but that’s just it, it’s just recommendations or cautions. I always try to listen to someone who is seeking advice and to give an answer that gives them options, so they feel like they can decide for themselves. Perhaps what you mean is that we should be more pragmatic about the advice we give. In that case I agree. That means that rather being dogmatic about our advice, we should assume more of a coaching role which assists a player through their own process of trial and error. Check out the thread below. I find it a very good case study for exactly what you have discussed in your initial post. You may notice a stark contrast between my posts and the other poster giving advice. war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/13560/gnawing-hangarI think telling the community to start offering certain advice in place of another is missing the point. There is no ‘one size fits all’. The community needs to ask the right questions to get to know the poster in order to tailor advice suitable to the individual in question. But then again, there are forum members who are doing this so well already, I find it a bit condescending to even say this. |
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Post by T34 on Oct 13, 2017 16:42:01 GMT -5
Welcome back |
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