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Post by SuperHero on Sept 15, 2017 12:07:01 GMT -5
We all know that currently the Dashes are OP.
So i decided to put this thread up so folks can share their experiences and suggestions about how to combat the Dash menace as it stands right now.
And we all know that the Orkan Haechi is probably the most dangerous bot around right now so I shall start with some of my experiences with and against it. (I currently own 1 Haechi and 1 Bulgasari)
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The Kuminho and the Haechi have insanely fast ability cool down times and as such are able to use Orkans super effectively while remaining generally out of harm's way. In most of my experiments, the only bot that could consistently face an Orkan Mk1 or Mk2 and have even the slightest chance of winning or hurting it badly was the TARAN ROG.
The Tarans naturally bypassed the Haechi's energy shield and the Rog has enough ground speed as well as an excellent jump cool-down of it's own to match the Haechi in most of the maps as long as you stay away from open areas. Range awareness and management will also allow you to minimize damage as well.
I have tried other permutations and so far the Taran Rog has been most consistent if piloted well. Dash ability aside, the Rog is more agile than the Haechi, which is currently the premier killer in the meta. Why not a PDB Griffin? It has more firepower right? While that may be true, the long cool down on the jump as well as the slow ground speed makes it a VERY tasty target for a fully loaded Orkan Haechi with 2 dashes stored.
Do note however that if the Dash is carrying plasma or a scourge, ur in deeper trouble. then staying on the ground is better than jumping unless your jumps effectively take you behind cover. Play cat'n'mouse and corner shoot.
Naturally, all this assumes a 1v1 battle
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I hope to provide more regarding other dash bot builds in the near future.
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Post by SuperHero on Sept 15, 2017 12:17:19 GMT -5
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Post by Estoplast on Sept 15, 2017 12:26:56 GMT -5
I usually waste 2 bots for haechi. Fortunately i don't see more than maybe 2-3 in a game. Maybe i get a second rog. Been thinking about taran one. In my current league i perhaps can excuse 2 rogs...
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Post by Deadeye on Sept 15, 2017 12:30:35 GMT -5
I hadn't thought of the ole Taran Rog, but your explanation makes perfect sense. *goes to hanger to retrofit mothballed Rog*
What other setups did you try? The first thought that comes to mind is the all Taran Doc (which I don't have anyway), but without a jump and a lower speed (51 kph I think) maybe it isn't maneuverable enough. I would think it wouldn't be enough to hold up against the K-ho.
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Sept 15, 2017 12:32:09 GMT -5
And don't, for the love of handjobs, show fear and timidity...The good Dash pilot will use it to tie up two or three of the team with out firing a shot...Go get the frikin' things, hunt them mercilessly like they shaved your eyebrows while you were passed out...and only then will the skill set to take them down emerge.
Case in point: I learned how to take down an Ancilot with a Rog after many steam rollings and endless Lance waves..Rog Vs. Lance, which seems mismatched, is very doable once the technique is practiced and honed..
I think Deplorable "Top Gun" Mech Weapons and Tactics School is coming...Once Custom matches arrive..Call sign "Icemelder"..you can be my Quad Treb Butch anytime!
I feel the need...the need for...? a short Nap
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Post by SuperHero on Sept 15, 2017 12:41:29 GMT -5
I hadn't thought of the ole Taran Rog, but your explanation makes perfect sense. *goes to hanger to retrofit mothballed Rog* What other setups did you try? The first thought that comes to mind is the all Taran Doc (which I don't have anyway), but without a jump and a lower speed (51 kph I think) maybe it isn't maneuverable enough. I would think it wouldn't be enough to hold up against the K-ho. I tried a whole bunch of thing. Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ 's tip of keeping track of the Dash cool-down is very important, just the same way many Champ players will keep track of when a Griffin had jumped. I do not suggest the doc as the lack of mobility as well as well as the lack of jump is detrimental. And the use of cover is important. The more you need to use cover, the more the Doc's ability becomes useless. Cos when you're shooting at the Haechi, he's shooting at you too. And the 50 range difference sometimes doesnt even require a dash to cover. The trick is to jump and attack when he attacks you. Orkans can now hurt you as you jump through the air, but unless he leads the target VERY well, the dmg is bearable compared to being on the ground. I was talking more close range setups. Because if you are far away (like on Springfield), naturally Trebs hurt Haechis and Kuminhos. I've also had fun peppering a Haechi to death from 800m with a Tempest Fury. RDBs are worthless against Haechis. But can be surprisingly ok against Bulgasaris if you are VERY lucky. All the usual suspects are not as effective as the Haechi's shield helps negate anything with enough DPS. In open terrain with no cover, the Haechi is a sitting duck for a PDB Griffin. But I don't want to have to state such obvious things either. |
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Post by SATmaster728 on Sept 15, 2017 13:01:54 GMT -5
I hadn't thought of the ole Taran Rog, but your explanation makes perfect sense. *goes to hanger to retrofit mothballed Rog* What other setups did you try? The first thought that comes to mind is the all Taran Doc (which I don't have anyway), but without a jump and a lower speed (51 kph I think) maybe it isn't maneuverable enough. I would think it wouldn't be enough to hold up against the K-ho. I tried a whole bunch of thing. Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ 's tip of keeping track of the Dash cool-down is very important, just the same way many Champ players will keep track of when a Griffin had jumped. I do not suggest the doc as the lack of mobility as well as well as the lack of jump is detrimental. And the use of cover is important. The more you need to use cover, the more the Doc's ability becomes useless. Cos when you're shooting at the Haechi, he's shooting at you too. And the 50 range difference sometimes doesnt even require a dash to cover. The trick is to jump and attack when he attacks you. Orkans can now hurt you as you jump through the air, but unless he leads the target VERY well, the dmg is bearable compared to being on the ground. I was talking more close range setups. Because if you are far away (like on Springfield), naturally Trebs hurt Haechis and Kuminhos. I've also had fun peppering a Haechi to death from 800m with a Tempest Fury. RDBs are worthless against Haechis. But can be surprisingly ok against Bulgasaris if you are VERY lucky. All the usual suspects are not as effective as the Haechi's shield helps negate anything with enough DPS. In open terrain with no cover, the Haechi is a sitting duck for a PDB Griffin. But I don't want to have to state such obvious things either. use fury, your not gonna get close |
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Post by Koalabear on Sept 15, 2017 13:55:48 GMT -5
So, in my experience in piloting my Bulg. If you're in an area with plenty of cover, and 1v1 with an orkan Bulg - even a low level one like mine, you might want to reconsider the match up, or wait for reinforcements. If I have cover that I can shoot around, and dash to safety, I fear no 1v1 match up in my Bulg. Well, except for ancile bots of course. The only bot that really will give me the hardest time is the thunder Carnage. Even the mighty Ancilot, it'll be a pretty close match.
That said, what takes me down the most is rocket fire. Again, in today's rocket fueled world, rockets, rockets and more rockets is what wins the game more often than not.
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Post by bronzeknee on Sept 15, 2017 15:16:33 GMT -5
A Taran Rog is a good counter if they are running Orkans. But if they are running Plasma you're badly out gunned.
So a Plasma Griff it is. You have to use jump correctly, and you only get one shot. It is literally the only Robot in the game that is an even fight with a Plasma Haechi and defeats an Orkan Haechi. Lancelot, Rhino, Rog, whatever else lose to one or the other. I've had a lot of success with the Plasma Griff versus the Haechi, but it is important to remember that isn't really a counter to the Haechi, it is an even trade. And the Haechi is better in so many other situations that it is a far superior Robot.
As for keeping track of the cooldown of Dash, that's easy, but keeping track of both charges is difficult. The Dash Robots definitely need to be nerfed, and the ability to store multiple charges has to go (unless Pixonic massively increases the cooldown). It is way too strong. Additionally, the Haechi is way too durable. Either chop ~40k armor off (giving it similar armor to a Carnage) or remove the Ancile. And I argued for those exactly changes back in June.
I've also had some success with my Punisher Leo, but I'm not sure if it just situational yet, I need more time to assess it. I recommend the Leo over the Lancelot because a Haechi with Orkans deals 180,000 damage and the Lancelot only has 170,000 armor. You have to be able to survive the burst of the three Orkans. Ancilot sacrifices too much firepower and the Haechi can dash inside of the Ancile.
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Post by ᒪΛᏟIΛ on Sept 15, 2017 15:33:05 GMT -5
As a kumiho pilot I highly recommend tracking weapons and highly splash weapons such as
Hydra,spiral,zues,scourge,gekko,pin,trident,tulumbas
And zeus fury is dash murderer
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Post by rustedscrap on Sept 15, 2017 16:01:16 GMT -5
I got a lvl 12 Hiachi running lvl 11 orkans . Certain maps like moon, valley, or dead city I fear nothing. I don't care what you're running. I'll take you out. Not because I'm particularly good. I paid to win. The bot is op period.
Bigger maps like canyon and Springfield I gotta be careful. I always stay in the built up side. I can dash treb shots easily enough. It's gekko pattons believe it or not that piss me off the most.
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Post by AzureAura on Sept 15, 2017 16:15:14 GMT -5
Yea honestly I've had some trouble dealing with dash robots and even with other team mates it's difficult. Even my best robot Thunder Pinata Leo has a hard time fighting them.
My Taran Rog does better even tho the thunder on my Leo is lvl 11 and it's Tarans are both lvl 9. Rarely do I ever see two on the field at once om the same team, but when I do every robot targets them, most end up dead before the dashes are down.
It's like a Carnage and a Fuijin had a baby and this was the result.
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Post by EatStinkyTofu on Sept 15, 2017 16:43:32 GMT -5
Vs Kumiho, fortunately, it has a low health pool, so if you find a rather careless or aggressive Kumiho pilot, it's actually not too hard to take out with a DB griff. You just drop short rocket bursts at their dash end locations... you won't kill it outright, but they can't survive more than 2-3 of partial DB hits. A Kumiho in the hands of a good pilot is a nightmare for me.
I've also found that a taran ancilot, using cover to recharge and staying at range, is tanky enough to be at least a challenging opponent. I've had a few Orkan Haechi dash a couple dozen meters too short of my ancile and I was able to kill or cripple them before dying myself.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Sept 15, 2017 17:34:03 GMT -5
I tried a whole bunch of thing. Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ 's tip of keeping track of the Dash cool-down is very important, just the same way many Champ players will keep track of when a Griffin had jumped. I do not suggest the doc as the lack of mobility as well as well as the lack of jump is detrimental. And the use of cover is important. The more you need to use cover, the more the Doc's ability becomes useless. Cos when you're shooting at the Haechi, he's shooting at you too. And the 50 range difference sometimes doesnt even require a dash to cover. The trick is to jump and attack when he attacks you. Orkans can now hurt you as you jump through the air, but unless he leads the target VERY well, the dmg is bearable compared to being on the ground. I was talking more close range setups. Because if you are far away (like on Springfield), naturally Trebs hurt Haechis and Kuminhos. I've also had fun peppering a Haechi to death from 800m with a Tempest Fury. RDBs are worthless against Haechis. But can be surprisingly ok against Bulgasaris if you are VERY lucky. All the usual suspects are not as effective as the Haechi's shield helps negate anything with enough DPS. In open terrain with no cover, the Haechi is a sitting duck for a PDB Griffin. But I don't want to have to state such obvious things either. use fury, your not gonna get close By virtue of them being dash bots, they WILL get close. It's their nature. Having a CC plan is solid. But so is a zeus fury. |
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Post by miscanthus on Sept 15, 2017 18:06:04 GMT -5
I've also been using Rogs to kill the new dash bots. I have both a Taran and Punishers set up. I give the slight edge to my punishers (lvl 12). They drop both the ancile and physical shields quite well. Being able to stay out of plasma range is a big plus.
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Post by SuperHero on Sept 15, 2017 20:04:59 GMT -5
As some have said, the Zeus Fury is definitely a beast against dash bots, especially on slightly more open maps like Yama, SF and even SZ to a certain extent. We have a guy in our clan who has been using it effective against Dashes. The advantage of the Zeus over trebs is the lock on and the quick reload.
Will talk about that a little more later
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Post by Gilded Wolf on Sept 15, 2017 20:12:25 GMT -5
This thread is fantastic. The forum at its best. Cheers to all.
"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious."
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Post by typhoonhunter on Sept 15, 2017 22:30:15 GMT -5
People who can not win without Dash will just be stupid just looking at them.
It is Noob at the point of using the dash series in the first place.
If you do not like being told like that, sell the hit dash robot right now, and ask Pixonic for a refund. There is no other way to escape the abuse other than to do so.
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Post by typhoonhunter on Sept 15, 2017 22:30:25 GMT -5
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Post by hon_shu on Sept 16, 2017 0:28:30 GMT -5
This is a great thread.
Let's not forget, unless you're running an all Dash hangar, you're sooner or later in the business of facing one in a "normal" bot.
That having said, I play in Expert on Android and unless I'm against some weird Champion squad where I can't read even one of the players' names and that fields 99 Dash bots, it's not that big of a deal normally. Sure, there may be a couple in some matches, and some bots do better than others against them. But I'm not sure I would turn my hangar upside down at this point just to counter Dashes.
I've been running a Rog and a Carnage for a couple of months now and they certainly do better than my (R)DB Griffins. I'm tempted to try Tarans or Punishers on the Rog, but Orkans are just too good against everything else - and sometimes even against Dashes (excluding Haechi).
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Post by SuperHero on Sept 16, 2017 1:39:12 GMT -5
I play in the iOS Champ league. in Beacon Rush, they are EVERYWHERE.... Especially if you squad. I find them far more deadly in Beacon Rush than in Domination. In Domination, you can see them coming and you require more skill with the Dash bots to really make them effective.
In BR, you can literally just spawn and unload....
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Post by hon_shu on Sept 16, 2017 3:00:10 GMT -5
I play in the iOS Champ league. in Beacon Rush, they are EVERYWHERE.... Especially if you squad. I find them far more deadly in Beacon Rush than in Domination. In Domination, you can see them coming and you require more skill with the Dash bots to really make them effective. In BR, you can literally just spawn and unload.... What a surprise, iOS players happy to spend some money .. |
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Post by dogman171 on Sept 16, 2017 3:38:49 GMT -5
I've had good luck with leo thunder/magnum combo, eats up dash robots pretty quick.
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Post by 7iquid on Sept 16, 2017 4:21:26 GMT -5
Rhino with punishers and orkans hurts the dash pretty bad.
Obviously situation depends but puns hurt the ancile and the orks do the rest. Strictly BR tho - otherwise the darn things tie me up in knots
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Post by SuperHero on Sept 16, 2017 4:28:24 GMT -5
I play in the iOS Champ league. in Beacon Rush, they are EVERYWHERE.... Especially if you squad. I find them far more deadly in Beacon Rush than in Domination. In Domination, you can see them coming and you require more skill with the Dash bots to really make them effective. In BR, you can literally just spawn and unload.... What a surprise, iOS players happy to spend some money .. Sheesh... don't be bitter mate. But there's another controversy behind that. Folks are actually buying up to $500 in keys, spinning and then asking (and getting) refunds from Apple. |
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Post by anjian on Sept 16, 2017 4:37:36 GMT -5
My suggestions include:
Use weapons that outrange the Taran and the Orkans.
Choose Domination rather than Beacon Rush.
Sniper builds with aim locking weapons.
If forced to fight close range, Thunders, Orkans, Tarans, Pinatas and Magnums.
Don't forget to cap beacons, damage and kill the other opposing team members with the 'ordinary' bots. In other words, don't get too myopically focused on the dash bots. Continue to play the game 'regularly' in your best and optimum style to win.
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Post by anjian on Sept 16, 2017 4:39:51 GMT -5
What a surprise, iOS players happy to spend some money .. Sheesh... don't be bitter mate. But there's another controversy behind that. Folks are actually buying up to $500 in keys, spinning and then asking (and getting) refunds from Apple. Not going to happen with Google. |
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Post by piginapoke on Sept 16, 2017 5:14:02 GMT -5
People who can not win without Dash will just be stupid just looking at them.
It is Noob at the point of using the dash series in the first place.
If you do not like being told like that, sell the hit dash robot right now, and ask Pixonic for a refund. There is no other way to escape the abuse other than to do so. What abuse would that be then? Wait! You screaming abuse showering your tablet/phone/computer with spittle as the veins in your forhead bulge and turn purple and your jagular vein starts pulsating as you go in a hissy fit because a dashbot nuked you? Is that it? I can live with that. I can live with that standing on my head. |
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Post by ezekielcrow on Sept 16, 2017 10:23:03 GMT -5
Had some luck using a gekko patton. Its good against kumiho and haechi but once they close..you're toast. Still if you can't destroy them, you've made them a bit more manageable for your team mates. Not to be used against a bulgasari unless you want to get its attention.
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Arkontas
Destrier
Posts: 28
Karma: 46
Platform: Android
Clan: ns dark elite
League: Champion
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Post by Arkontas on Sept 16, 2017 10:25:28 GMT -5
You'll be okay vs the Scourges if you stay at 300-350 and corner shoot/abuse cover. Breaking the Scourges lock on also causes a 3 second lock on time. I talked about it a bit here: https://www.reddit.com/r/walkingwarrobots/comments/6xtx0n/psa_bulgasaris_weakness/
Generally the Scourges are better on a Bulgasari. That means something with a plate and rockets will counter them. A key thing to remember is to sit at your optimal range, as the closer you get to the Scourges the more damage you'll take.
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"Kill'em all."
