Deleted
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MM?
Dec 5, 2016 2:51:45 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 2:51:45 GMT -5
So there was a thread a few days ago about how something in Android MM has changed(also a comment in the MM guide thread)
If it's not too much trouble for you guys, please reply with the following:
Your strongest & heaviest bot levels: no need for specifics, just something like 6/6 heavy, 4/12 light etc
Penalized bots? (Y/N)
And the average opposition over 10 or so games (just check the top 1-2)
Win% I plan on trying something after my current upgrade finishes, and want to see what's going on with everyone else's experience.
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typewriter
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Platform: Android
Clan: [Шικ²] ШικΣd
League: Silver
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MM?
Dec 5, 2016 13:09:42 GMT -5
Post by typewriter on Dec 5, 2016 13:09:42 GMT -5
Will record and post it here.
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MM?
Dec 6, 2016 7:22:11 GMT -5
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Dec 6, 2016 7:22:11 GMT -5
So there was a thread a few days ago about how something in Android MM has changed(also a comment in the MM guide thread) If it's not too much trouble for you guys, please reply with the following: Your strongest & heaviest bot levels: no need for specifics, just something like 6/6 heavy, 4/12 light etc Penalized bots? (Y/N) And the average opposition over 10 or so games (just check the top 1-2) Win% I plan on trying something after my current upgrade finishes, and want to see what's going on with everyone else's experience. Ok, my experiences lately... Heaviest is 6/7 heavy, no penalty. Also 6/9 light, penalty. Sometimes 4/6 medium, penalty. Opposition goes from 6/5 heavies all the way to 8/9 or 9/8 max, anything beyond that is rare enough to be considered rubber banding. Lights seem to hover around the same, occasionally sporting lvl10 weapons. Similar thing with mediums. Average damage hovers around 250k, those with higher damage average seem to have a lower winrate. Mine sits around 60-70%. Have seen on average players between 300-450k with 50-80%, max at 450k. This is what I've noticed in tonight's play session, hopefully it's useful, I've tried to be as accurate as I can. And.... where'd all the Gepards go?
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Scorpio Snow
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Platform: iOS
Clan: Wiklings [2wik]
League: Silver
Favorite robot: Any bots counter Gepard at Silver
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Post by Scorpio Snow on Dec 6, 2016 7:31:32 GMT -5
Where'd all the gepards go? You, sir, are living in the dream. XD
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typewriter
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MM?
Dec 6, 2016 7:56:33 GMT -5
Post by typewriter on Dec 6, 2016 7:56:33 GMT -5
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nquveRJssQfnz8sFu3y6Ok3S-pKC6XPvC56YpXA2Arw/edit?usp=sharingThat's my record. I am playing 6/7 light, 2/9 light, 5/4 medium, 2/5.5 medium, 6/1 heavy. no penalty. Winrate ~68% I record the teammate with the highest damage (second highest in our team if I am on the top) and the enemy with the highest damage. Not accounting for their winrate (i cant because I dont know how the score is computed), the average of these highest damage players in every match is roughly 4/10 light, 4/9 medium and 6/6 heavy. occasional penalty bots but not common. Highest I see in 10 matches are prolly the 3/12 Gep and 6/5.75 Rhino
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Dec 6, 2016 23:35:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 23:35:08 GMT -5
Thanks folks.
Seems what you're being matched within a static margin of the higher level between weapons/bot.
I went from 1/7 lights to 4/7 lights and saw no change, going to keep going, but so far it's been 4/5 5/4 mediums, 6/4 and below heavies.
When putting on level 8 weapons there is a substantial leap to 4/6-4/7 mediums but no change in heavies (just better winrates).
If there is no change in the opposition that the weapon level 7 bots face up to 7/7, then I will confirm that MM seems to use only the higher level between bot/weapon levels.
That would explain the disappearance of many clubbers with high level weapons. I dont even see 1/9 geps anymore.
It's also been confirmed that people are dropping into Yama with 4/6 light bots, which was formerly solid low bronze. IF my assumption is right, it is counting that 4/6 as a solid 6 instead of the denomination of the bot/weapon scores as it formerly did.
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MM?
Dec 7, 2016 0:37:41 GMT -5
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Dec 7, 2016 0:37:41 GMT -5
Mind you, I was less attentive when it came to lower geared players. Although gear-wise was where mismatched bot/weapon levels occurred the most, players with 3 to 4 slots only, so trying to find averages was, tricky.
Having said that, even the lower geared players had average damage scores and winrates within my self percieved "bracket". In which case higher avg. dmg. and hangar scores went hand in hand with lower winrates for the most part above me, only rarely seeing players winning out on all three (hangar strength+damage+winrate all higher).
This showed up often enough that I thought it was worth a mention.
If it helps, I play on android between the hours of 8-11pm (not non-stop lol, that's just my usual window) during whatever eastern Aussie time is regarded as.
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Deleted
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Dec 7, 2016 0:50:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 0:50:01 GMT -5
I just switched up a couple of light bots for 1/5 mediums and was instantly thrown in with 4/6, 5/5 mediums and 6/6 heavies. I really think that MM is taking the higher of the two into account instead of scaling the sum of both.
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Dec 7, 2016 0:50:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 0:50:14 GMT -5
I just switched up a couple of light bots for 1/5 mediums and was instantly thrown in with 4/6, 5/5 mediums and 6/6 heavies. I really think that MM is taking the higher of the two into account instead of scaling the sum of both.
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MM?
Dec 7, 2016 0:56:16 GMT -5
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 7, 2016 0:56:16 GMT -5
I just switched up a couple of light bots for 1/5 mediums and was instantly thrown in with 4/6, 5/5 mediums and 6/6 heavies. I really think that MM is taking the higher of the two into account instead of scaling the sum of both. 4/6 mediums and 6/6 heavies are almost 2 tiers apart. Clearly some banding happened there.
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Deleted
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Dec 7, 2016 1:03:33 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 1:03:33 GMT -5
I just switched up a couple of light bots for 1/5 mediums and was instantly thrown in with 4/6, 5/5 mediums and 6/6 heavies. I really think that MM is taking the higher of the two into account instead of scaling the sum of both. 4/6 mediums and 6/6 heavies are almost 2 tiers apart. Clearly some banding happened there. They arent IF heavy scores were reduced. Considering heavies appear in low bronze now, that isn't beyond reason. And both heavy hangars had a winrate of 70%+ Given weed's latest announcement, it's safe to say that pix staff have been lurking out forums for awhile.
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MM?
Dec 7, 2016 1:06:30 GMT -5
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 7, 2016 1:06:30 GMT -5
They arent IF heavy scores were reduced. Considering heavies appear in low bronze now, that isn't beyond reason. And both heavy hangars had a winrate of 70%+ Given weed's latest announcement, it's safe to say that pix staff have been lurking out forums for awhile. could you post the photos on this thread? Sorry I didn't see the other one.
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MM?
Dec 7, 2016 1:09:49 GMT -5
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Dec 7, 2016 1:09:49 GMT -5
If that's the case now, I'm pondering on jacking up my Stalker levels to 9 to match their weaponry...
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typewriter
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Post by typewriter on Dec 7, 2016 1:25:30 GMT -5
I just switched up a couple of light bots for 1/5 mediums and was instantly thrown in with 4/6, 5/5 mediums and 6/6 heavies. I really think that MM is taking the higher of the two into account instead of scaling the sum of both. 4/6 mediums and 6/6 heavies are almost 2 tiers apart. Clearly some banding happened there. I have the same feeling too. Even when considering only non penalized mediums and heavies. And I don't feel like it's the higher of bot and weapons, from very crude observation. I played 2 matches with a 2/8.5 Patton and I didn't see what i saw with the 9/1 Patton. Pretty obvious difference. (dont have enough L9 weapons to make weapon level 9 for a medium ) Also my 2/9 Gep has been there on and off during the recent experiments, whether it was in my hangar didn't make difference. Same for the 6/7 Cossack. But I added a 8/7 Cossack and I noticed some difference. Just for a couple matches and only slightly stronger opponents so it could be just variance / observation problems. I've updated my MM record spreadsheet. Hope it helps
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Dec 7, 2016 1:36:25 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 1:36:25 GMT -5
They arent IF heavy scores were reduced. Considering heavies appear in low bronze now, that isn't beyond reason. And both heavy hangars had a winrate of 70%+ Given weed's latest announcement, it's safe to say that pix staff have been lurking out forums for awhile. could you post the photos on this thread? Sorry I didn't see the other one. I don't screenshot every match. I've been playing 1/7 lights for ages, but 1/5 mediums just had me face a full squad of 4/9 gepards, haven't seen that since I dropped down from low silver (4/7 mediums)
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Deleted
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Dec 7, 2016 1:39:02 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 1:39:02 GMT -5
4/6 mediums and 6/6 heavies are almost 2 tiers apart. Clearly some banding happened there. I have the same feeling too. Even when considering only non penalized mediums and heavies. And I don't feel like it's the higher of bot and weapons, from very crude observation. I played 2 matches with a 2/8.5 Patton and I didn't see what i saw with the 9/1 Patton. Pretty obvious difference. (dont have enough L9 weapons to make weapon level 9 for a medium ) Also my 2/9 Gep has been there on and off during the recent experiments, whether it was in my hangar didn't make difference. Same for the 6/7 Cossack. But I added a 8/7 Cossack and I noticed some difference. Just for a couple matches and only slightly stronger opponents so it could be just variance / observation problems. I've updated my MM record spreadsheet. Hope it helps It might be something even cruder, as I saw my first clubber squad in months while using 1/5 mediums just now. 4/7 lights, no change from 1/7 lights, 4/7 lights and 1/5 mediums, border of former high bronze/low silver.
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Deleted
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Dec 7, 2016 1:40:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 1:40:14 GMT -5
If that's the case now, I'm pondering on jacking up my Stalker levels to 9 to match their weaponry... Hold off on it for a week while I get my lights to 7 and my mediums to 5. If I'm still facing the same competition, Ill post here.
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MM?
Dec 7, 2016 1:40:29 GMT -5
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 7, 2016 1:40:29 GMT -5
could you post the photos on this thread? Sorry I didn't see the other one. I don't screenshot every match. I've been playing 1/7 lights for ages, but 1/5 mediums just had me face a full squad of 4/9 gepards, haven't seen that since I dropped down from low silver (4/7 mediums) 1/5 mediums is in the same tier as 4/6 mediums I believe, which plays alongside 4/9 lights. As far as I know 2/4 is the level cap for low bronze (I never bothered to test the boundaries of low bronze with mediums though)
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Deleted
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Dec 7, 2016 1:44:13 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 1:44:13 GMT -5
I don't screenshot every match. I've been playing 1/7 lights for ages, but 1/5 mediums just had me face a full squad of 4/9 gepards, haven't seen that since I dropped down from low silver (4/7 mediums) 1/5 mediums is in the same tier as 4/6 mediums I believe, which plays alongside 4/9 lights. As far as I know 2/4 is the level cap for low bronze (I never bothered to test the boundaries of low bronze with mediums though) 1/5 mediums are on the border of low/high bronze, (5/6 light bot rating) I've run them before, but have never gotten squadded on by top of bracket geps until 3/6 at the very least. The other thing I'm considering is that they are hard-locking weapon and bot levels to brackets. Which is why anything up to 'X' seems A OK in a tier, while having something a single level above "X" can result in OMGWTF. The latter is even more likely with Pix's announcement of the MM update around the corner, and how they tend to implement "leagues" instead of the former MM system of ratings and rubber banding scores.
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typewriter
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MM?
Dec 7, 2016 2:53:52 GMT -5
Post by typewriter on Dec 7, 2016 2:53:52 GMT -5
1/5 mediums is in the same tier as 4/6 mediums I believe, which plays alongside 4/9 lights. As far as I know 2/4 is the level cap for low bronze (I never bothered to test the boundaries of low bronze with mediums though) 1/5 mediums are on the border of low/high bronze, (5/6 light bot rating) I've run them before, but have never gotten squadded on by top of bracket geps until 3/6 at the very least. The other thing I'm considering is that they are hard-locking weapon and bot levels to brackets. Which is why anything up to 'X' seems A OK in a tier, while having something a single level above "X" can result in OMGWTF. The latter is even more likely with Pix's announcement of the MM update around the corner, and how they tend to implement "leagues" instead of the former MM system of ratings and rubber banding scores. That's also my best guess now. Again my 6/1 Griffin seemed to not make any difference, and I changed it to a 6/2.25 and immediately I see much stronger opponents.
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MM?
Dec 7, 2016 2:58:34 GMT -5
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 7, 2016 2:58:34 GMT -5
The other thing I'm considering is that they are hard-locking weapon and bot levels to brackets. Which is why anything up to 'X' seems A OK in a tier, while having something a single level above "X" can result in OMGWTF. The latter is even more likely with Pix's announcement of the MM update around the corner, and how they tend to implement "leagues" instead of the former MM system of ratings and rubber banding scores. this has really always been the case in my experience, but majorly in the lower tiers. From the lowest tier to about high bronze you can run maximised optimal bot setups with 100% win rate and you will have the highest rated hangar out of everyone 90-95% of the time. In silver it gets blended a little more, but nowhere near as bad as gold.
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Deleted
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Dec 7, 2016 3:20:54 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 3:20:54 GMT -5
The other thing I'm considering is that they are hard-locking weapon and bot levels to brackets. Which is why anything up to 'X' seems A OK in a tier, while having something a single level above "X" can result in OMGWTF. The latter is even more likely with Pix's announcement of the MM update around the corner, and how they tend to implement "leagues" instead of the former MM system of ratings and rubber banding scores. this has really always been the case in my experience, but majorly in the lower tiers. From the lowest tier to about high bronze you can run maximised optimal bot setups with 100% win rate and you will have the highest rated hangar out of everyone 90-95% of the time. In silver it gets blended a little more, but nowhere near as bad as gold. Ive been stuck in bronze for a long while do to only being semi-active. While leveling, it didn't feel like strict cutoffs the first time around. Higher brackets are always trashed by MM because pix has gotten super stingy with upgrade costs/times. I used to play high silver before having to start over, it was nothing like high silver now... since it takes almost a week to get 4 med/heavy weapons passed 7, I don't think the higher tiers will ever improve. Those that blow an arseton of gold to get there at any decent manner of time are VERY likely the people high bronze/low silver hangars see but shouldnt. A 'league' system would mean fighting mostly players in your league, with few exceptions when on the high/low end of a league. Pix has 12 leagues in mind, what criteria they have speculative, but when it does premiere, everyone knowing where they should be should fix all of this. (I:E where X/X medium bot fits in with X/X light bots etc) Weed's announcement said pix plans on the change in January, febuary the latest. The unnanounced tweaks in the meantime is what's frustrating.
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Deleted
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Dec 7, 2016 13:14:32 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 13:14:32 GMT -5
My hangar: 4 mediums (4/5,5,7,7) and 1 Gepard (4/8,8,8,8) - my win percentage varies between 70 and 90.
Top opponent's highest bot:
Rogatha (4/8) Gepard (3/10) Gepard (1/10) Griffin (6/6) Vityaz (6/7) Griffin (6/5) Golem (8/5) Gareth (7/5) Gepard (6/7) Leo (6/6) Griffin (6/6) Leo (8/5)
The Rog and Geps were all high win percentage guys. The other mediums around 60%. The heavies were generally below 50%.
It feels like my hangar is close to the edge of a bracket. If I try to move my weapons up to a uniform 7 on the mediums, then I consistently see lights with level 10 weapons and much more powerful mediums and heavies.
Edit: These matches were all from last night (around 11 pm MST)
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MM?
Dec 9, 2016 8:40:49 GMT -5
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Dec 9, 2016 8:40:49 GMT -5
Tonight wasn't exactly my best night, I dropped down to 54%, however, max opponents had taken a significant dive down to the 6/5 heavy region (well under myself) but the disturbing part was spotting a lowbie running a 3 slot hangar with a 2/5 Gepard as his highest bot. 40something% winrate. Lesser dmg and winrate too. Sorry I didn't get a screenie but I felt so bad after seeing that hangar.
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Vicious Jester
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Pilot name: Vicious Jester
Platform: iOS
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Grif
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MM?
Dec 9, 2016 13:58:45 GMT -5
Post by Vicious Jester on Dec 9, 2016 13:58:45 GMT -5
well.. the MM is definately broken in iOS so it wouldn't surprise me that it was broken in android as well since android is mostly broken on its own.
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MasterBlaster
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Platform: iOS
Clan: wiki (DEVL)
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Phantom
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MM?
Dec 9, 2016 15:40:02 GMT -5
Post by MasterBlaster on Dec 9, 2016 15:40:02 GMT -5
I'm still trying to absorb the MM scaling formula: warrobots.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:60155?useskin=oasis ...My head hurts ;-). My current setup: Cossack.2|Taran.7 Schutze.2|Thunder.7 Boa.3|Thunder.6/Taran.5 Boa.2|Thunder.6/Orkan.5 Patton.2|Pinata.5/Pinata.5/Pinata.5/Pinata.5 I was seeing higher end geps (4/10, 3/11 or so) and Heavys (mostly 6/4 but also some 6/6) I decided to swap out my Schutze for my Golem.2|Thunder.5/Taran.5/Magnum.6. It seems now I see less heavies, but 6/4 or below, with around 50% win rate and lower powered geps too (although as expected the gep players have higher winrates, 70-90%). Makes me wonder if the thunder.7 on the Schutze is having that effect. Since I have wsp/Au weapons on my Boa's, not sure if I should keep leveling those. I could post the question to another thread. I realize it is more about tier/hanger advice, but thought I'd at least share the observation. Not sure if it is that valid or not. My apologies I have not captured that data you asked. Could upgrading heavy hardpoint weapons be a factor here?
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MasterBlaster
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League: Champion
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Phantom
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MM?
Dec 12, 2016 9:42:49 GMT -5
Post by MasterBlaster on Dec 12, 2016 9:42:49 GMT -5
Here's my last 10, between 5 - 7 PM (EST), last night... My strongest bot: 3/7 Medium, Penalized Bots?: No
Last 10, top opponents: 6/5 Heavy 6/5 Heavy 6/6 Heavy 7/5 Heavy 6/6 Heavy 6/5 Heavy 6/5 Heavy 6/5 Heavy 6/5 Heavy 5/8 Light (Gep)
My Win Percentage: 100% (I presume you are asking mine over these last 10)
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bryndamor
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League: Bronze
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MM?
Dec 12, 2016 10:24:13 GMT -5
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Post by bryndamor on Dec 12, 2016 10:24:13 GMT -5
4/6 mediums and 6/6 heavies are almost 2 tiers apart. Clearly some banding happened there. They arent IF heavy scores were reduced. Considering heavies appear in low bronze now, that isn't beyond reason. And both heavy hangars had a winrate of 70%+ Given weed's latest announcement, it's safe to say that pix staff have been lurking out forums for awhile. I live in light 4/6 and I rarely see any heavies.
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MM?
Dec 13, 2016 17:24:13 GMT -5
Post by Duodec on Dec 13, 2016 17:24:13 GMT -5
Here's my last 10, between 5 - 7 PM (EST), last night... My strongest bot: 3/7 Medium, Penalized Bots?: No Last 10, top opponents: 6/5 Heavy 6/5 Heavy 6/6 Heavy 7/5 Heavy 6/6 Heavy 6/5 Heavy 6/5 Heavy 6/5 Heavy 6/5 Heavy 5/8 Light (Gep) My Win Percentage: 100% (I presume you are asking mine over these last 10) I've been running 4/7 mediums for months and I see 6/5 and 6/6 heavies pretty normally. I heard all the news about them going to an Elo style matchmaker and I think they might have been testing it. Someone suggested that they're going to build a room like normal based on gear, then sort the teams by Elo rating so they're even. I'm starting to think more and more that this has been the case since the patch because my teams suck! My win rate is dropping fast from high 80's to mid 70's now. When I get a good team there's a clubber on the opposing team with a +90% win rate. On a side note, at least half the battles I fight now we're down a man within a minute. Either the ditch rate is getting worse or crashes are.
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MM?
Dec 13, 2016 20:18:09 GMT -5
Post by Loop_Stratos on Dec 13, 2016 20:18:09 GMT -5
I run 5/8 meds with wsp penalty, around 60 win rate and have been running into some 8/8 heavies with penalized hangars with around 50 winrate.
My assumption is they're balancing weapon levels and bot levels.
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