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Post by Browncoats4ever on Dec 8, 2019 22:41:19 GMT -5
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Post by hkang on Dec 9, 2019 5:01:07 GMT -5
Definitely no. Fenrir is better suited as a brawler, so I wouldn't recommend mid range build except calamity/scourge. As for the configuration, a combination of energy weapon and kinetic weapon for sniping is not a decent idea. Furthermore, wasps is off the meta, and a single dragoon won't do much damage.
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Post by Desc440 on Dec 9, 2019 5:13:16 GMT -5
Midrange is actually not bad, but the problem is more that Wasps suck 「bum-bum」.
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Post by Browncoats4ever on Dec 9, 2019 5:29:11 GMT -5
Definitely no. Fenrir is better suited as a brawler, so I wouldn't recommend mid range build except calamity/scourge. As for the configuration, a combination of energy weapon and kinetic weapon for sniping is not a decent idea. Furthermore, wasps is off the meta, and a single dragoon won't do much damage. The Dragoon used to do pretty well on my Inquisitor at lvl 10 before I swapped it for an Ember.
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Post by Browncoats4ever on Dec 9, 2019 5:30:32 GMT -5
Midrange is actually not bad, but the problem is more that Wasps suck ?bum-bum?. Disappointing because I spent so much time WS-ing the Wasps. Hopefully they'll get a Buff.
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Post by Browncoats4ever on Dec 9, 2019 5:37:26 GMT -5
Better?
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Post by bravex on Dec 9, 2019 7:37:26 GMT -5
Better? That's what I'm starting with. I also plan to try Redeemer Taran. I also will experiment with a "stuff I won from events" build: Sinister Glacier, Yan Di Corona and regular Corona. Well I didnt win the last one.
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Post by Desc440 on Dec 9, 2019 9:19:40 GMT -5
Better? Yes. Taser is one of the best Fen setups.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 20:50:57 GMT -5
Taser might also work nicely when the game is lagging too much to successfully aim at and hit other bots. (I don't have the Scourge to test it yet.) Though the original Dragoon/Wasp setup will be better if you always remain at 500-600m and never get closer (400% times the damage at 600m, 150% the damage at 500m, 92% @ 400m, 68% @ 300m, 54% @ 200m, and 39% the damage of a Taser setup @ 50m. It seems Heavy Dragoon generally outputs rather equivalent damage to Medium Pulsar and Wasp - one chart I'm looking at shows it doing around 3% less damage than a Medium Pulsar (which also has Lockdown), and around 19% more damage than the Medium Wasps (which have corrosion). ((side-note: And though I cannot yet vouch for it at all, I'm interested in trying a Viper/Wasp Fenrir. I'm not sure how good the corrosion will be against Leech. With both Viper and Wasp lacking the short range damage of shotguns/leadhose, it'd also lack serious punch when pounding away at T-Falcons at point blank (I have a T-Falcon-like armor build Fenrir).)) I'm still playing away with various tactics myself. Usually run an Avenger with either Coronas or Pulsars atm to excellent effect. Finally trying a hybrid now, and without the sharpshooter perk, it seems has a near identical DPS output to the Taser setup, IF the bullets hit: (Avenger/Pulsar/Corona)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 5:51:35 GMT -5
Update: This is showing itself to be an excellent build for me, hitting a lot of niches
• Corona: 500m always-ready lockdown energy shotgun. Can fully recharge it's depleted energy over the course of the Pulsar's magazine reload, synergising well. Great damage at point blank (really helps with T-Falcons) with a wide arc that can hit / lockdown small, fast bots.
• Pulsar: 600m magazine-limited lockdown energy sniper rifle that can do over 5 times the damage of a Scourge at 500-600m, able to scare away/kill/lockdown distant threats.
• Avenger: 500m kinetic leadhose powerhouse that can be packed away during reloads for faster movement times
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Post by Koalabear on Dec 10, 2019 8:00:54 GMT -5
If I ever take my Fenrir off the shelf, it would be as a MR build. My ideal would be a pair of Hussars or Pulsars and a Dragoon on top. Probably won't happen for a while, but heck, I'll see if I ever unlock my 5th hangar.
Taser Fenrir isn't bad, but the problem I ran into is this: is it a brawler or a MR bot? As a brawler, it doesn't have high enough DPS. You can go 1v1 against many bots and win, but you will get really hurt by some. At MR, the Tasers will tickle most targets and you will let many slip away into cover before you do any decent damage. You really want a heavy weapon that can pound out decent damage in a very short amount of time.
I feel that if you do Hussar or Pulsar with Dragoon, the Fenrir can be as annoying and as difficult to kill at MR as a Dragoon Bulwark. One day, if I ever get tired on my Dragoon Falcon and if I ever grind out another Hussar or Pulsar, I'll give it a serious try. I did try it with Pulsars for a few games and it wasn't bad.
Keep in mind, my stuff is L9 with no premium modules.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 9:23:32 GMT -5
No.....this is
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Post by Browncoats4ever on Dec 10, 2019 9:25:26 GMT -5
No.....this is I'll trade you 100Pt for 100M Ag. I feel each of those weapons aren't really effective unless in pairs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 9:28:10 GMT -5
No.....this is I'll trade you 100Pt for 100M Ag. I’ll trade you a L8 Kid for your 2 Leeches.....
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Post by Browncoats4ever on Dec 10, 2019 9:32:41 GMT -5
I'll trade you 100Pt for 100M Ag. I’ll trade you a L8 Kid for your 2 Leeches..... No thanks. One Kid is enough. I'm looking forward to the day I can purchase a different Titan so I can sell the Kid for Ag.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 9:34:00 GMT -5
I’ll trade you a L8 Kid for your 2 Leeches..... No thanks. One Kid is enough. I'm looking forward to the day I can purchase a different Titan so I can sell the Kid for Ag. My guess.....650,000 Ag for selling it......
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Post by Desc440 on Dec 10, 2019 9:34:30 GMT -5
Taser Fenrir isn't bad, but the problem I ran into is this: is it a brawler or a MR bot? As a brawler, it doesn't have high enough DPS. You can go 1v1 against many bots and win, but you will get really hurt by some. At MR, the Tasers will tickle most targets and you will let many slip away into cover before you do any decent damage. You are of course correct but hey there has to be a tradeoff for the versatility Taser offers. If it could do super high damage at close range AND do serious damage at midrange too, why would anyone run anything but Taser?
I like tasers on Fenrir because it compliments its jack-of-all-trades, master of none design very well. It's a gap-filler bot.
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Post by Koalabear on Dec 10, 2019 10:02:11 GMT -5
Taser Fenrir isn't bad, but the problem I ran into is this: is it a brawler or a MR bot? As a brawler, it doesn't have high enough DPS. You can go 1v1 against many bots and win, but you will get really hurt by some. At MR, the Tasers will tickle most targets and you will let many slip away into cover before you do any decent damage. You are of course correct but hey there has to be a tradeoff for the versatility Taser offers. If it could do super high damage at close range AND do serious damage at midrange too, why would anyone run anything but Taser?
I like tasers on Fenrir because it compliments its jack-of-all-trades, master of none design very well. It's a gap-filler bot.
I remember in last week's skirmish, I went head to head against a PDB Fenrir while I was in the Taser. I was at about 2/3HP and he was at full HP. He closed the distance til we were rubbing noses and I actually started to out damage him! I was surprised. I got him down to about 1/4HP before I ran out. Had we started with both at full HP, I would have won that hands down.
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Post by Phycoshot on Dec 10, 2019 10:07:09 GMT -5
The only downside I see to tasers is not even the lockon because that can be reduced to under 2 seconds, but when the person you are shooting at dies, goes into stealth, or backs out of 600m ad you are left with a small amount of clip left without anyway to reload until you get a lock, and if you go into the other mode it doesn't start to reload until you fire the rest.
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Post by Desc440 on Dec 10, 2019 10:13:03 GMT -5
You are of course correct but hey there has to be a tradeoff for the versatility Taser offers. If it could do super high damage at close range AND do serious damage at midrange too, why would anyone run anything but Taser?
I like tasers on Fenrir because it compliments its jack-of-all-trades, master of none design very well. It's a gap-filler bot.
I remember in last week's skirmish, I went head to head against a PDB Fenrir while I was in the Taser. I was at about 2/3HP and he was at full HP. He closed the distance til we were rubbing noses and I actually started to out damage him! I was surprised. I got him down to about 1/4HP before I ran out. Had we started with both at full HP, I would have won that hands down. Yeah Tasers actually do a surprising amount of damage at short range. Obviously not as much as shotties or the like but still a significant amount.
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Post by cheap on Dec 10, 2019 10:23:33 GMT -5
No.....this is that is a Great Build, when i ran mine i was Assured i could Kill a T-Fal in a reasonably quick amount of time instead of waiting Minutes, Invaders fall fast, the good Number of Lances that are out these Days Die Quick. i can't wait to run it again in 3 weeks.
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Post by Desc440 on Dec 10, 2019 11:01:22 GMT -5
A hybrid setup I've been running is dual Scourges with Avenger. The power curve for taser weapons is nearly identical to the Avenger's accuracy curve, so it works reasonably well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 11:10:43 GMT -5
No.....this is that is a Great Build, when i ran mine i was Assured i could Kill a T-Fal in a reasonably quick amount of time instead of waiting Minutes, Invaders fall fast, the good Number of Lances that are out these Days Die Quick. i can't wait to run it again in 3 weeks. One more....a frozen Titan falls fast, lol
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Post by Koalabear on Dec 10, 2019 11:11:07 GMT -5
I remember in last week's skirmish, I went head to head against a PDB Fenrir while I was in the Taser. I was at about 2/3HP and he was at full HP. He closed the distance til we were rubbing noses and I actually started to out damage him! I was surprised. I got him down to about 1/4HP before I ran out. Had we started with both at full HP, I would have won that hands down. Yeah Tasers actually do a surprising amount of damage at short range. Obviously not as much as shotties or the like but still a significant amount. Often makes me wonder what would happen if you took various builds and put them head to head and started walking towards each other while firing. No fancy moves or tactics. Just straight damage. Weapons like the Tasers would do more damage over time, but would shotties catch up once the range gets really close?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 19:16:53 GMT -5
Trying to do up some 30 second DPS charts for the Fenrir using the data from KomodoPie's Ultimate Weapon Comparison Tool, which, if correct, still runs on 5.0 stats and is without pilot skills such as sharpshooting. The ones I have so far don't illustrate things such as the Exodus / Orkan combination (compare: Glacier / Cryo) initially performing much better at 300m within the first few seconds of firing. Also, a sample period of 30 seconds isn't good enough to compare weapons with long unload / reload times, such as Avengers and Punishers. (eg Avenger / Punisher T leadhose is calculated as doing more damage than Glory / Corona at 50m up until 15 seconds, then it stops doing damage for 10 seconds, substantially lowering it's otherwise stellar performance on this chart.) All weapons at maximum Level 12 Mk2. Scale down as needed. Progressive damage at 50m: The 600m Avenger (<500m physical shield breaker) / Corona (<500m wide arc lockdown) / Pulsar (<600m synergistic sniper lockdown) build might be the best available all-purpose utility build for my all-armor Tough Guy Fenrir at the moment* Versus a comparable Glory T-Falcon, it deals ~ 2x more damage at 50m, ~ 3x more damage at 100m, ~ 4x more damage at 150m - 200m, ~ 5x more damage at 250m - 300m, ~ 6x more damage at 400m, ~ 9x more damage at 500m, and can still hit even further with the combined tickle strength of around 3 Calamities (5 Scourges) at 600m. While it seems a Traditionalist Falcon only has around 28% more effective armor than a Fenrir in assault mode plus an extra Foolhardy Quartermaster module recharge at 50% when both have max heavy armor modules and pilot skills. (So, if these calculations are correct, a Fenrir could take around 78% as much damage as a T-Falcon, but dish out way more firepower. Conversely, unlike a T-Falcon, a Fenrir's weapons can pop off when damaged.) * that said, due to the extreme lag, Tasers may have an improved chance of actually hitting bots as they randomly teleport around. The only downside I see to tasers is not even the lockon because that can be reduced to under 2 seconds, but when the person you are shooting at dies, goes into stealth, or backs out of 600m ad you are left with a small amount of clip left without anyway to reload until you get a lock, and if you go into the other mode it doesn't start to reload until you fire the rest. Necessary targeting Lock-On (and specifically, the time involved), and not being able to discharge/reload weapons without a Lock-On are two reasons I initially avoided Tasers entirely.
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Post by RightOn on Dec 12, 2019 12:45:22 GMT -5
I don't like anything with reload in the heavy.
Thus I just think Glory or Glacier are the right choices for heavy. Having a lockon calamity with reloads is just awful...
For mediums you have more options, because you can reload always. I would opt for more range than Corona/Storm though. Taran, Scourge, Igniters, even Punishers are good.
I went with Igniters and eventually a glacier.
Even a cheapass punisher thunder Fenrir will wreck if you know what you're doing.
I wanted to try pulsar/Redeemer for some reason but I just feel like the reload would get in the way, and your melee ability would be limited to kiting.
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Post by miscanthus on Dec 12, 2019 13:28:16 GMT -5
Been running an Avenger/Storm set up recently. Both weapons have shot grouping. I usually drop it mid to end of the match to go after T-Falcons. So far I like it.
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Post by CravenSouls on Dec 12, 2019 14:46:26 GMT -5
I haven't had mine long, but I do pretty well with Scourge/Glory. I tried full tazer, but I like the no lock on of the Glory plus the lock down.
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Post by Munki on Dec 13, 2019 17:00:01 GMT -5
I just REALLY LIKE using Redeemer with Coronas. The coronas lock down while I am charging the red player and when locked down and <350 meters, I switch to the Redeemer which hits so hard. It does have reload but is very short and not been an issue. Tried using things like Viper and Glory but did not find they fit the way I like to play my Fen.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 17:08:22 GMT -5
Though I don't have any Wasps on the main server, a Viper + 2x Wasp setup worked good at very quickly killing off a full health leeching leech (that was leeching my Fenrir) on the Test Server. My Fenrir barely took damage. I've only had once chance to test that so far, and it's not live server conditions. So hmm. And Viper/2x Wasp was a generally strong mid-long range combination on other bots. Wasps work best at over 500m range, Viper work great at just under 500m. A Viper/Wasp build is already at around max damage output at 400m, and doesn't get any better the closer you (or enemies) get. The damage of a Viper/Wasp/Wasp setup @ 400m is comparable to non-Sharpshooting Avenger/Corona/Pulsar build @ 250m, and a Glory/Corona/Corona setup @ 125m. But both those builds theoretically do almost twice as much damage at point blank. And this is a theoretical comparison of the Redeemer/Taran combination operating in their <350m sweet spot: At the moment, though, for me, necessity demands effective builds vs Leech, Phantom and Ao Jun.
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