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Post by xCHIEFx on Aug 6, 2019 11:11:34 GMT -5
I compare the best midrange sniper comparing max MK2 Pulsar and Max Hussar using my Battle rec account. I tested 4 Pulsar, 4 Hussar and a hybrid build using 2 Pulsar and 2 Hussar from 400 meters and 600 meters to see which one is the Top midrange sniper.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 11:21:04 GMT -5
Nice Chief, thanks.
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Post by nix on Aug 6, 2019 11:38:51 GMT -5
Nice to see this, however you’re doing a couple of things wrong. First of all, test-results need to be taken with a grain of salt, as they’re not representative of real in game performance, the reload cycle of pulsars vs the continuous reload of hussars make a lot of difference when you’re playing, pulsars have lockdown which I’m not sure if you mentioned, etc etc etc. It also looks like you have a mechanic skill on your invader? The end result also seems dodgy: If your results show that 2 A + 2 B outperform both 4 A and 4 B, surely there are other variables at play.
I’d encourage you to think about this more on a sliding scale of various factors - personally I think Pulsars are better, but there are so many things that affect what works best in a given scenario that your test fails to capture.
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Post by eluray on Aug 6, 2019 15:40:14 GMT -5
Results: "Pulsar 600m-25s 400m-12sec" "Hussar 600m-25s 400m-11sec"
Conclusion: "Pulsar best inside 400m due to shot spread" "Hussar no real difference from 400 - 600m"
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Post by HarvesterOsorrow on Aug 6, 2019 17:03:39 GMT -5
Surprised the hussar has misses at range and a different kill time at 400 vs 600. As far as I’ve noticed my Dragoon’s don’t miss at longer range.
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Post by xCHIEFx on Aug 6, 2019 17:08:56 GMT -5
Nice to see this, however you’re doing a couple of things wrong. First of all, test-results need to be taken with a grain of salt, as they’re not representative of real in game performance, the reload cycle of pulsars vs the continuous reload of hussars make a lot of difference when you’re playing, pulsars have lockdown which I’m not sure if you mentioned, etc etc etc. It also looks like you have a mechanic skill on your invader? The end result also seems dodgy: If your results show that 2 A + 2 B outperform both 4 A and 4 B, surely there are other variables at play. I’d encourage you to think about this more on a sliding scale of various factors - personally I think Pulsars are better, but there are so many things that affect what works best in a given scenario that your test fails to capture. Thanks for the feedback. And I don’t mean to sound like a jerk... but it was a Damage comparison... if you want to see all the other things I’d suggest you start your own channel and produce videos that meet your expectations. I chose the Invader because it’s one of the fattest targets around. The Invader had no pilot, so there was no healing. The results are far from “dodgy” because the test was simply which does more damage. Obviously a ton of factors will go into someone choosing what items to use. Some things you even left off your list... how about skill? Hmm. Yeah, gameplay is very different and someone with more skill than another person will make things perform better. Im a little surprised you didn’t bash me for only taking measurements from 400 meters and 600 meters.... I guess even you seem to understand that mid range is 400-600...
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Post by xCHIEFx on Aug 6, 2019 17:12:00 GMT -5
Results: "Pulsar 600m-25s 400m-12sec" "Hussar 600m-25s 400m-11sec" Conclusion: "Pulsar best inside 400m due to shot spread" "Hussar no real difference from 400 - 600m" ? I was not testing inside of 400 meters because that is no longer mid range. The pulsar would increase damage the closer you get due to shot spread that the hussar does not have. there was no real difference between 400 and 600 meters, but because the hussar did perform ever so slightly better at the max of 600, I would personally use the hybrid build to gain the lockdown from the pulsar and have very slight increased damage from hussar.
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Post by xCHIEFx on Aug 6, 2019 17:13:56 GMT -5
Surprised the hussar has misses at range and a different kill time at 400 vs 600. As far as I’ve noticed my Dragoon’s don’t miss at longer range. My first attempt at 600m with hussar did 0 damage, every shot missed. I’m assuming I must have been at 600.5 meters. After adjusting worked. I was very surprised there was a difference in damage between rages as they are not supposed to really have any shot spread.
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Post by nix on Aug 6, 2019 17:45:58 GMT -5
Nice to see this, however youâre doing a couple of things wrong. First of all, test-results need to be taken with a grain of salt, as theyâre not representative of real in game performance, the reload cycle of pulsars vs the continuous reload of hussars make a lot of difference when youâre playing, pulsars have lockdown which Iâm not sure if you mentioned, etc etc etc. It also looks like you have a mechanic skill on your invader? The end result also seems dodgy: If your results show that 2 A + 2 B outperform both 4 A and 4 B, surely there are other variables at play. Iâd encourage you to think about this more on a sliding scale of various factors - personally I think Pulsars are better, but there are so many things that affect what works best in a given scenario that your test fails to capture. Thanks for the feedback. And I donât mean to sound like a jerk... but it was a Damage comparison... if you want to see all the other things Iâd suggest you start your own channel and produce videos that meet your expectations. I chose the Invader because itâs one of the fattest targets around. The Invader had no pilot, so there was no healing. The results are far from âdodgyâ because the test was simply which does more damage. Obviously a ton of factors will go into someone choosing what items to use. Some things you even left off your list... how about skill? Hmm. Yeah, gameplay is very different and someone with more skill than another person will make things perform better. Im a little surprised you didnât bash me for only taking measurements from 400 meters and 600 meters.... I guess even you seem to understand that mid range is 400-600... No need to get all defensive. What Iâm saying is that âwhat does more damageâ in your test operates on a scale of *time*, not just range. Pulsars have (not exact, but you get the idea) 5 second burst followed by 5 sec reload whereas the dragoon-style weapons have a period of burst followed by 1/3 of that dps. What you really tested for is âwhich build kills *this* invader quickerâ in the very isolated scenario you put up. Iâve done extensive calculations on this 「dookie」 and trust me when I say that a slight change in parameters can drastically change the outcomes when reload cycles are involved. Videos: I have no desire at all to make a YouTube channel. Takes way too much time for me, so I think itâs great that people such as yourself take the effort to put content out there to help ppl make sense of the game. But when presenting numbers... you really need to know what youâre doing or risk misinterpreting the results - which is what youâve done in this case. Sorry if I come across as an arse on this, but to me your conclusion (2 of each) is nonsense and if you want to be taken seriously, you cannot state that 2+2 equals 5 (see âdodgy resultsâ below) Pilot: cool, I just thought I saw some slight healing. My bad. Dodgy result: no, youâre wrong here. There is no possible way in which 2 pulsars and 2 hussars will kill 8% faster than 4 pulsars or 4 hussars. This result simply invalidates all of your results and should prompt you to redo the test until you can get perfectly reproducible results.
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Post by eluray on Aug 6, 2019 18:27:25 GMT -5
Results: "Pulsar 600m-25s 400m-12sec" "Hussar 600m-25s 400m-11sec" Conclusion: "Pulsar best inside 400m due to shot spread" "Hussar no real difference from 400 - 600m" ? I was not testing inside of 400 meters because that is no longer mid range. The pulsar would increase damage the closer you get due to shot spread that the hussar does not have. there was no real difference between 400 and 600 meters, but because the hussar did perform ever so slightly better at the max of 600, I would personally use the hybrid build to gain the lockdown from the pulsar and have very slight increased damage from hussar. More than double time needed to bring down you target at 600m is no big difference? (Hussar) What would be real difference in you opinion? Pulsar have 100 % accuracy at 400m, no gain in dmg if you go closer
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Post by xCHIEFx on Aug 7, 2019 11:09:13 GMT -5
I was not testing inside of 400 meters because that is no longer mid range. The pulsar would increase damage the closer you get due to shot spread that the hussar does not have. there was no real difference between 400 and 600 meters, but because the hussar did perform ever so slightly better at the max of 600, I would personally use the hybrid build to gain the lockdown from the pulsar and have very slight increased damage from hussar. More than double time needed to bring down you target at 600m is no big difference? (Hussar) What would be real difference in you opinion? Pulsar have 100 % accuracy at 400m, no gain in dmg if you go closer I noted no real difference between pulsar and hussar pwhen compared at the same distances outside of 400. There are obviously differences between 400 and 600 when comparing the same weapon.
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Post by xCHIEFx on Aug 7, 2019 11:18:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback. And I donâ??t mean to sound like a jerk... but it was a Damage comparison... if you want to see all the other things Iâ??d suggest you start your own channel and produce videos that meet your expectations. I chose the Invader because itâ??s one of the fattest targets around. The Invader had no pilot, so there was no healing. The results are far from â??dodgyâ? because the test was simply which does more damage. Obviously a ton of factors will go into someone choosing what items to use. Some things you even left off your list... how about skill? Hmm. Yeah, gameplay is very different and someone with more skill than another person will make things perform better. Im a little surprised you didnâ??t bash me for only taking measurements from 400 meters and 600 meters.... I guess even you seem to understand that mid range is 400-600... No need to get all defensive. What Iâ??m saying is that â??what does more damageâ? in your test operates on a scale of *time*, not just range. Pulsars have (not exact, but you get the idea) 5 second burst followed by 5 sec reload whereas the dragoon-style weapons have a period of burst followed by 1/3 of that dps. What you really tested for is â??which build kills *this* invader quickerâ? in the very isolated scenario you put up. Iâ??ve done extensive calculations on this ?dookie? and trust me when I say that a slight change in parameters can drastically change the outcomes when reload cycles are involved. Videos: I have no desire at all to make a YouTube channel. Takes way too much time for me, so I think itâ??s great that people such as yourself take the effort to put content out there to help ppl make sense of the game. But when presenting numbers... you really need to know what youâ??re doing or risk misinterpreting the results - which is what youâ??ve done in this case. Sorry if I come across as an arse on this, but to me your conclusion (2 of each) is nonsense and if you want to be taken seriously, you cannot state that 2+2 equals 5 (see â??dodgy resultsâ? below) Pilot: cool, I just thought I saw some slight healing. My bad. Dodgy result: no, youâ??re wrong here. There is no possible way in which 2 pulsars and 2 hussars will kill 8% faster than 4 pulsars or 4 hussars. This result simply invalidates all of your results and should prompt you to redo the test until you can get perfectly reproducible results. I welcome constructive criticism and different opinions. However, when you start off by saying, you are wrong.... well, that’s not comes across as nothing more than narcissistic behavior, and I am responding accordingly. since you have invalidated my test, I guess at this point you are expecting me to say I somehow faked the video?. Sorry, but that’s not going to happen. I simply conducted the test, and showed the video results. Take it however you want.
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Post by nix on Aug 7, 2019 11:39:31 GMT -5
No need to get all defensive. What Iâ??m saying is that â??what does more damageâ? in your test operates on a scale of *time*, not just range. Pulsars have (not exact, but you get the idea) 5 second burst followed by 5 sec reload whereas the dragoon-style weapons have a period of burst followed by 1/3 of that dps. What you really tested for is â??which build kills *this* invader quickerâ? in the very isolated scenario you put up. Iâ??ve done extensive calculations on this ?dookie? and trust me when I say that a slight change in parameters can drastically change the outcomes when reload cycles are involved. Videos: I have no desire at all to make a YouTube channel. Takes way too much time for me, so I think itâ??s great that people such as yourself take the effort to put content out there to help ppl make sense of the game. But when presenting numbers... you really need to know what youâ??re doing or risk misinterpreting the results - which is what youâ??ve done in this case. Sorry if I come across as an arse on this, but to me your conclusion (2 of each) is nonsense and if you want to be taken seriously, you cannot state that 2+2 equals 5 (see â??dodgy resultsâ? below) Pilot: cool, I just thought I saw some slight healing. My bad. Dodgy result: no, youâ??re wrong here. There is no possible way in which 2 pulsars and 2 hussars will kill 8% faster than 4 pulsars or 4 hussars. This result simply invalidates all of your results and should prompt you to redo the test until you can get perfectly reproducible results. I welcome constructive criticism and different opinions. However, when you start off by saying, you are wrong.... well, that’s not comes across as nothing more than narcissistic behavior, and I am responding accordingly. since you have invalidated my test, I guess at this point you are expecting me to say I somehow faked the video?. Sorry, but that’s not going to happen. I simply conducted the test, and showed the video results. Take it however you want. Off course I don’t think you faked the video. Look, I’ve done enough of these sort of damage tests to know that they are often not 100% reproducible. When that’s the case, you’re looking at accuracy discrepancies or the infamous damage bug. This is why, to get an adequate understanding of how a weapon performs, you often need to do several identical tests. Or not, if you don’t care. Iow, if you did the same test again, you might come to a completely different conclusion (“pulsars suck” or “pulsars are 50% stronger than hussars” or whatever). I’m exaggerating to put the point across. IF you are interested in doing this better, you should consider first of all formulating a loose theory of what numbers you would expect the test to give. Then run the test and see if your expectation matches reality. If not, something else is going on, often some variable which you didn’t consider at first. Scientific method and all that.
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Post by nix on Aug 7, 2019 11:42:20 GMT -5
More than double time needed to bring down you target at 600m is no big difference? (Hussar) What would be real difference in you opinion? Pulsar have 100 % accuracy at 400m, no gain in dmg if you go closer I noted no real difference between pulsar and hussar pwhen compared at the same distances outside of 400. There are obviously differences between 400 and 600 when comparing the same weapon. See, this I find really interesting. Hussars are supposed to have full accuracy at any range (afaik, for sure dragons do have 100% at 600m). If this is reproducible, your test shows that’s not the case which is a huge let-down for hussars.
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Post by Koalabear on Aug 7, 2019 12:49:30 GMT -5
xCHIEFx, nix, hey guys! I think you guys got off on the wrong foot here! FWIW, I thought the video was very informative and very worthwhile for me. I won a Hussar in the last event and couldn't decide if I wanted to spend the resources and time to upgrade it. I don't have a bot I want to run one Hussar on. But, I might grind out a 4th Pulsar now, or wait til the Hussar is in the WS, and probably throw them on a Hover. I did kind of wish that you didn't have pilots on the Spectre. I think I saw two skills there that add to the Spectre's damage. The issue for me, when using damage boosters in these types of vids, is that it makes it harder for the viewer to do their own damage calculations cause they have to factor in the extra modifiers. Plus, some new'ish people might not realize that there's extra damage coming from the pilots and may get different results when they try these builds for themselves
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Post by xCHIEFx on Aug 7, 2019 17:41:56 GMT -5
I welcome constructive criticism and different opinions. However, when you start off by saying, you are wrong.... well, that’s not comes across as nothing more than narcissistic behavior, and I am responding accordingly. since you have invalidated my test, I guess at this point you are expecting me to say I somehow faked the video?. Sorry, but that’s not going to happen. I simply conducted the test, and showed the video results. Take it however you want. Off course I don’t think you faked the video. Look, I’ve done enough of these sort of damage tests to know that they are often not 100% reproducible. When that’s the case, you’re looking at accuracy discrepancies or the infamous damage bug. This is why, to get an adequate understanding of how a weapon performs, you often need to do several identical tests. Or not, if you don’t care. Iow, if you did the same test again, you might come to a completely different conclusion (“pulsars suck” or “pulsars are 50% stronger than hussars” or whatever). I’m exaggerating to put the point across. IF you are interested in doing this better, you should consider first of all formulating a loose theory of what numbers you would expect the test to give. Then run the test and see if your expectation matches reality. If not, something else is going on, often some variable which you didn’t consider at first. Scientific method and all that. Now those are good points. Prior to recording, I did actually do a comparison of the 3 builds. I generally do a non recorded run of any build I’m filming just to be sure I’m not wasting my time. Now I did not do the tests on all 3 builds at both distances, but on my dry run, i ran them from 500m and the performance was surprising only because I fully expected the pulsar to win by a lot, but that wasn’t the case. Your point of having reproducible results is very much valid.
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Post by xCHIEFx on Aug 7, 2019 17:43:08 GMT -5
I noted no real difference between pulsar and hussar pwhen compared at the same distances outside of 400. There are obviously differences between 400 and 600 when comparing the same weapon. See, this I find really interesting. Hussars are supposed to have full accuracy at any range (afaik, for sure dragons do have 100% at 600m). If this is reproducible, your test shows that’s not the case which is a huge let-down for hussars. I agree 100% and am working on stats to present to the developers since I do have access to them.
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Post by HarvesterOsorrow on Aug 11, 2019 19:41:11 GMT -5
Can you repeat the Hussar at 580 yards? I’m still trying to make sense of that weapon type having shot spread and misses at distance? I’ll run a test on my dragoon’s against my sons hangar and see if the Dragoon exhibits that kind of behavior
edit. Wondering if like you said somehow at exactly 600 yards/meters/what ev the pix system chokes.
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Post by mechtout on Jan 19, 2020 13:13:00 GMT -5
I got what I came for here, basically the difference isnt big enough to completely give up the lock down. Thanks Chief. Keep up the vids
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