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Post by bronzeknee on Aug 12, 2018 15:41:13 GMT -5
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Post by Zero Jee on Aug 12, 2018 17:15:41 GMT -5
Thanks for popping this up!
I noticed you excluded the PDB Griffin. Why isn't it a preferred load out in 6PL?
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Post by bronzeknee on Aug 12, 2018 17:54:31 GMT -5
I listed up to three effective builds for each robot for formatting purposes only, most of the robots with three builds listed have more viable builds too. The Stuka Griff (Orkan/Aphid), PBD (Taran/Magnum) and Molot Griffin are all definitely viable choices too, among other builds.
Sorry for any confusion.
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Post by Radar love on Aug 12, 2018 22:27:02 GMT -5
I like this line up except for 2. I think the galahad should be higher while the doc should be lower. This is just me reflecting on when I came up. The galahad was often more used and provided a solid defense with his shield. The doc sure has more health but is no faster and can only shoot 2 weapons at once.
But thanks for that info. It has me thinking of running a rhino in 6pack.
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Post by Gilded Wolf on Aug 13, 2018 19:53:14 GMT -5
I like this line up except for 2. I think the galahad should be higher while the doc should be lower. This is just me reflecting on when I came up. The galahad was often more used and provided a solid defense with his shield. The doc sure has more health but is no faster and can only shoot 2 weapons at once. But thanks for that info. It has me thinking of running a rhino in 6pack. Get one before WSP 2.0 drops. The rhino is totally worth it. I agree with Bronzeknee wholeheartedly. Plasma has been on a steady rise as a response to so many anciles. And in addition, there is no bot in 6 Pack that can wade forward into Punisher rain like a rhino. It's like waves breaking on a reef. Yes the lack of manueverability is a factor but that shield is like a hammer in a pillow fight....unless there's orkans and tulu present. |
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Post by Gilded Wolf on Aug 13, 2018 19:56:29 GMT -5
And I have to say, Bronze's guides here are outstanding. Like something I would craft but better. It seems the wait was totally worth it.
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giraffeman
GI. Patton
Posts: 147
Karma: 89
Pilot name: GiraffeMan
Platform: Amazon
Clan: Iron Outlaws
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: One i don't have
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Post by giraffeman on Aug 14, 2018 12:01:29 GMT -5
I listed up to three effective builds for each robot for formatting purposes only, most of the robots with three builds listed have more viable builds too. The Stuka Griff (Orkan/Aphid), PBD (Taran/Magnum) and Molot Griffin are all definitely viable choices too, among other builds. Sorry for any confusion. Thank you for posting this.... You have confirmed that the anicile punisher (or mag) leo I was going to level, but skeptical about, would be better replaced with another lead hose or DB griff. You have also made me consider getting a Rhino instead of letting the rest of the WSP I have be converted to keys. Now I am pretty sure I may go all griff and rogata with a possible Rhino. Not sure on that one yet since I never piloted one, and I am sure there is a pretty big learning curve with it.
Thanks again, and good hunting.
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Post by bronzeknee on Aug 14, 2018 12:06:08 GMT -5
If your team needs a tank, an Ancile Leo is a lot better than a Griffin. You tank the hits so the other robots behind can dish out damage and can push defended area which the Griffin doesn't do as well.
They really fill two different roles. I have the Griffin ranked highest because it is so versatile, but a team of Griffins would lose badly to a team made up of everything else.
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Post by moody on Aug 14, 2018 21:05:09 GMT -5
I would suggest a newly marginally viable loadout for Butch would be the newly buffed kang dae along with zeus. Either on a fury would still 'probably' be the superior option but I've found it fun to use and quite effective.
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Post by Deadeye on Aug 15, 2018 15:48:56 GMT -5
It's worth noting that not many players use Rhinos in competitive iOS league play. There are lots of rockets in that league and less plasma because of all the ECU bots (re: brit bots) running around. The susceptibility to RDB and DB set ups make it a situational. I've seen bronzeknee's videos and he's an excellent Rhino pilot, but it is a high skill bot that requires lots of time in the pilot seat to get the most out of it including a high level of situational awareness. Don't let it dissuade you from getting one, but definitely know that there is a decent likelihood you might not like it at first. I ran one for a long time in Champ league after it was buffed and tried it when I started 6pack. I never found the right set up for it, though I did really like molots. The Griffin's jump adds so many levels of versatility that aren't available to the Rhino, but with the same loadout possibilities. I would have placed the Galahad far higher on the list. The EZ Reapers are nigh untouchable with multiples of that bot. That said, I'd love to see more people using the Rhino. And thanks for the list! |
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Post by frunobulax on Aug 16, 2018 17:36:31 GMT -5
I'll just put my tiers in here. I don't think I want to decide whether a [insert robot here] is better than a [insert another robot here], because most meta robots fulfill different roles in the hangar. Tier 1: Lancelot, Doc, Rhino, Rogatka, Fujin, Griffin, Natasha, Fury - Lancelot: Many experienced 6pack pilots will run at least one Ancilot. It gives excellent protection against the omnipresent Punishers and can lock down or conquer critical beacons. Punisher Ancilots seem to be most common, followed by Tarancilots.
- Doc: I think this is the most underrated robot in 6pack. It is as fast as a Lance (without shield), but packs an enormous firepower with 4 Orkans or 4 Tulus. Obviously a glass cannon, but it can really tear apart an enemy lineup.
- Rhino: My preferred beacon capper. Most players use Rogs, but I like the ability of the Rhino (either Punisher/Orkan or DB) to kill Ancilots, driving straight into the shield of a Tarancilot or even a Punisher Ancilot (if I can get close enough without compromising my shield).
I use a DB Rhino to open the game in 90% of my matches, and my main competition are Rogatkas. IMO I'm 50-50 against Rogs (they have more mobility but I have more firepower), but the Rhino works better against Lancelots (see above) and in fact against most other heavy robots, as it has that crucial extra of firepower that allows to almost take out a heavy robot in one go. - Rogatka: I guess it's players choice between Rog and Rhino.
- Fujin: With all those Punishers, the Punisher Fujin works surprisingly well in 6pack. At the very least the other team will be scrambling to get some Plasma in range.
- Griffin: Well, I don't run it. Really. But I've also seen players that run a 5-Griffin hangar, very successfully. As the Griffin is probably the bot with the most fans out there, I think I don't need to write much about it here, but I will write that I run a Doc, a Rhino and a Fujin with setups that other players use on Griffins (Punishers, Orkans, Tulus), because I think the Doc has that sweet extra firepower and ground speed, the Rhino has the shield and again the ground speed, and the Fujin the Ancile.
- Natasha/Fury. Both are pretty much interchangeble and seen almost exclusively with Zeus/Gekkos. While midrangers have no place in 3vs3 matches and arguably also in 4vs4 matches, I run at least one of those (a Zeus Gekko Natty) whenever we have 5vs5 or 6vs6, and it's often tremendously efficient. The Natty is often easier to obtain, because it costs only 4500 gold, compared to 9500 of the Zeus Fury. And I did have some Gekkos collecting dust from black market winnings anyway.
Tier 2: Carnage, Leo, Galahad - The Thunder Carnage is still a very nice robot. However, the playing level in 6pack is pretty high, and it is very hard to surprise players with a Thunder Carnage. Also the Ancile of the Carnage is rather weak and easily eaten up by all those Punishers.
Conversely we have virtually no Hydras/Spirals in 6pack, so I'll take a robot like the Doc over a Carnage. - The Leo is kind of a placeholder robot for players that are collecting gold for a Lancelot or maybe a Fury. Mostly seen in the Aphid/Ancile variant, but a Thunder/Punisher Leo will also pull its weight.
- The Galahad is an old favorite of mine. However, there are enough rockets in 6pack to make life very risky for those Galahads, and the fact that Punishers can shred even a Galahad shield quickly doesn't help him.
Tier 3: Raijin, Boa, Patton, Golem, Butch. - Obviously Boas, Pattons, Golems can be run if the tier 1/2 robots are not available, but I don't think they are really efficient.
- Tier 3 includes the Raijin, as they are way too slow (and have a very tough time maneuvering some parts of the map with those long legs), because I see a Raijin only as midranger/sniper in 6pack, and simply think the Natty and Fury are the better platforms by far, and the Natty is essentially free.
- As for the Butch, it is a bit faster than other heavy bots, but I find it hard to find a suitable weapon loadout. Maybe a quad Trident Butch can be efficient, but until we get a Trident buff, I don't see Tridents as a meta weapon.
My current 6pack hangar is DB Rhino, Punisher Ancilot, Orkan Doc, Zeus/Gekko Natasha, and a #5 robot that can be almost anything (usually Punisher Fujin, but I've also used Taran Rog, Punisher Griffin/Rhino and Thunder Carnage in that spot, depending on what my teammates are running and how many players we have). Saving gold for another Punisher or Taran Ancilot to lock down that 5th spot (at least for league matches). For Lite Knight, the following robots perform exceptionally well: - Spiral Jesse/Gepard
- Pin Jesse/Gepard
- Pinata Jesse/Gepard
- Punisher Gepard
- Punisher Stalker
I started Lite Knight with several Garys (BM winnings), but quickly realized that the shield has very limited value in an environment that is dominated by missiles, so I'll go with the better firepower of the Jesse and Gepard. I haven't made up my mind on the Stalker yet. I think it can be efficient, but only with a Punisher loadout that gives a high-DPS option for the rather short stealth period. |
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Post by bronzeknee on Aug 17, 2018 0:29:14 GMT -5
The Ancile of the Carnage has 47,000 hit points at level 6. The heavy slot Ancile has 54,000 hit points at level 6.
I don't know if the difference is big enough to call to the Carnages weak if you think the heavy slot Ancile isn't weak.
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Post by ironstar on Aug 17, 2018 4:49:21 GMT -5
A thoroughly enjoyable read and a good stab at what is a very difficult task. I think there a probably as many different bot rankings as there are 6pack pilots.
I completely agree on the griffin being the best allround bot due to the versatile loadout options, decent health pool and jump ability. More or less a tie with the Rhino which has its awesome shield and charge ability.
Many of the other bots are highly situational and therefore very tough to rank. Get into the right position among the enemy on maps like DC or Shenzen and suddenly the Thunder Carnage becomes the best bot in the game for example.
I really like the graphical design of your work, and for new sixpack pilots in the making this and the weapon ranking is an absolute gold mine. I wish I had something like it avaliable when I built my own sixpack hangar. Luckily I had some input from guys on the Discord, Rommel in particular.
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Post by frunobulax on Aug 19, 2018 13:21:58 GMT -5
I like this line up except for 2. I think the galahad should be higher while the doc should be lower. This is just me reflecting on when I came up. The galahad was often more used and provided a solid defense with his shield. The doc sure has more health but is no faster and can only shoot 2 weapons at once. The majority of 6pack players disagrees, judging from the numbers of Galahads and Docs seen. The Orkan Doc is a beast, the Tulu Doc an extremely good midranger. |
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Post by frunobulax on Aug 19, 2018 13:26:21 GMT -5
The Ancile of the Carnage has 47,000 hit points at level 6. The heavy slot Ancile has 54,000 hit points at level 6. I don't know if the difference is big enough to call to the Carnages weak if you think the heavy slot Ancile isn't weak. The difference is noticable. 2 Orkans and 2 Pinatas have a cycle damage of ~110k. A Carnage is below 25% health after a full DB Griffin blast, an Ancilot has about 55% health left. Of course, the Lance works best against Punishers with the double shield. |
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Post by bronzeknee on Aug 19, 2018 17:40:40 GMT -5
It gets complicated because of how situational it is (which makes 6 Pack skillful!). The Carnage obviously has less base armor so of course a full DB load will take it down easier. But it is a lot more mobile and can dodge rockets far better. It also has higher firepower at knifing ranges and if the DB Griffin dies then it deals no damage. Against Punishers, it depends on the range. The Carnage has a small profile and extra mobility to get to cover faster while the Lancelot is very large and slow.
I was simply comparing the raw numbers. I find the Carnage to be excellent at shielding other robots. The extra speed it has is important.
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Post by Pilot Moby_dic on Aug 22, 2018 9:29:09 GMT -5
I'll just put my tiers in here. I don't think I want to decide whether a [insert robot here] is better than a [insert another robot here], because most meta robots fulfill different roles in the hangar. Tier 1: Lancelot, Doc, Rhino, Rogatka, Fujin, Griffin, Natasha, Fury - Lancelot: Many experienced 6pack pilots will run at least one Ancilot. It gives excellent protection against the omnipresent Punishers and can lock down or conquer critical beacons. Punisher Ancilots seem to be most common, followed by Tarancilots.
- Doc: I think this is the most underrated robot in 6pack. It is as fast as a Lance (without shield), but packs an enormous firepower with 4 Orkans or 4 Tulus. Obviously a glass cannon, but it can really tear apart an enemy lineup.
- Rhino: My preferred beacon capper. Most players use Rogs, but I like the ability of the Rhino (either Punisher/Orkan or DB) to kill Ancilots, driving straight into the shield of a Tarancilot or even a Punisher Ancilot (if I can get close enough without compromising my shield).
I use a DB Rhino to open the game in 90% of my matches, and my main competition are Rogatkas. IMO I'm 50-50 against Rogs (they have more mobility but I have more firepower), but the Rhino works better against Lancelots (see above) and in fact against most other heavy robots, as it has that crucial extra of firepower that allows to almost take out a heavy robot in one go. - Rogatka: I guess it's players choice between Rog and Rhino.
- Fujin: With all those Punishers, the Punisher Fujin works surprisingly well in 6pack. At the very least the other team will be scrambling to get some Plasma in range.
- Griffin: Well, I don't run it. Really. But I've also seen players that run a 5-Griffin hangar, very successfully. As the Griffin is probably the bot with the most fans out there, I think I don't need to write much about it here, but I will write that I run a Doc, a Rhino and a Fujin with setups that other players use on Griffins (Punishers, Orkans, Tulus), because I think the Doc has that sweet extra firepower and ground speed, the Rhino has the shield and again the ground speed, and the Fujin the Ancile.
- Natasha/Fury. Both are pretty much interchangeble and seen almost exclusively with Zeus/Gekkos. While midrangers have no place in 3vs3 matches and arguably also in 4vs4 matches, I run at least one of those (a Zeus Gekko Natty) whenever we have 5vs5 or 6vs6, and it's often tremendously efficient. The Natty is often easier to obtain, because it costs only 4500 gold, compared to 9500 of the Zeus Fury. And I did have some Gekkos collecting dust from black market winnings anyway.
Tier 2: Carnage, Leo, Galahad - The Thunder Carnage is still a very nice robot. However, the playing level in 6pack is pretty high, and it is very hard to surprise players with a Thunder Carnage. Also the Ancile of the Carnage is rather weak and easily eaten up by all those Punishers.
Conversely we have virtually no Hydras/Spirals in 6pack, so I'll take a robot like the Doc over a Carnage. - The Leo is kind of a placeholder robot for players that are collecting gold for a Lancelot or maybe a Fury. Mostly seen in the Aphid/Ancile variant, but a Thunder/Punisher Leo will also pull its weight.
- The Galahad is an old favorite of mine. However, there are enough rockets in 6pack to make life very risky for those Galahads, and the fact that Punishers can shred even a Galahad shield quickly doesn't help him.
Tier 3: Raijin, Boa, Patton, Golem, Butch. - Obviously Boas, Pattons, Golems can be run if the tier 1/2 robots are not available, but I don't think they are really efficient.
- Tier 3 includes the Raijin, as they are way too slow (and have a very tough time maneuvering some parts of the map with those long legs), because I see a Raijin only as midranger/sniper in 6pack, and simply think the Natty and Fury are the better platforms by far, and the Natty is essentially free.
- As for the Butch, it is a bit faster than other heavy bots, but I find it hard to find a suitable weapon loadout. Maybe a quad Trident Butch can be efficient, but until we get a Trident buff, I don't see Tridents as a meta weapon.
My current 6pack hangar is DB Rhino, Punisher Ancilot, Orkan Doc, Zeus/Gekko Natasha, and a #5 robot that can be almost anything (usually Punisher Fujin, but I've also used Taran Rog, Punisher Griffin/Rhino and Thunder Carnage in that spot, depending on what my teammates are running and how many players we have). Saving gold for another Punisher or Taran Ancilot to lock down that 5th spot (at least for league matches). For Lite Knight, the following robots perform exceptionally well: - Spiral Jesse/Gepard
- Pin Jesse/Gepard
- Pinata Jesse/Gepard
- Punisher Gepard
- Punisher Stalker
I started Lite Knight with several Garys (BM winnings), but quickly realized that the shield has very limited value in an environment that is dominated by missiles, so I'll go with the better firepower of the Jesse and Gepard. I haven't made up my mind on the Stalker yet. I think it can be efficient, but only with a Punisher loadout that gives a high-DPS option for the rather short stealth period. Just won a Doc in silver chest and was wondering what the heck to do with it :-) |
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