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Post by dom0aragato on Apr 22, 2018 12:28:58 GMT -5
Noen - the problem is that the modules will add too many variables making the gameplay much too unpredictable. When you can except almost everything from every bot/weapon combination you can't really plan and employ different tactics for different opponents and situations. And then the gameplay becomes just a simple, mindless arcade shooter where the deciding factor is your HP/firepower and the OP-ness of your expensive equipment. Since the skill will matter less and less the money will matter more and more. And this is the plan I'm afraid... This. Tactics become useless. Tactics are this games strong point and what makes it fun. It will become another mindless blast em game
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Post by sm94 on Apr 22, 2018 13:58:12 GMT -5
**interupting the hate pix circlejerk** Guys....this is the first we heard of them. CHILL OUT. They'll go through changes before they hit live server. Stop with the "pix nails in the coffin just got six inches longer, grave got __ deeper" its so repetitive and you sound like ã??falafelã?Âing trump with his "wall just got 6 feet taller". Lets be honest.. either way you guys will complain, it doesnt matter what Pix does. Stop "threatening" to uninstall or go to BoT.. and just do it.. no one cares, snowflakes. I just love this kind of comment- Ya know- first the insults. Then the admonition to chill out. The gratuitous "Trump " comparison / slam. Then point out that your (we're) just a bunch of malcontents. Almost UNIVERSALLY followed by the "if you dont like it, just go ahead and quit" line. Hey Bub, did you bother to actually read the comments about WHY this sort of thing is a BAD CONCEPT? FOR ANY GAME?? Did it ever OCCUR to YOU that these people actually KNOW what they are talking about? Tell Your Masters that people aren't ?female dog?ing here because it's fun. They are doing it because the car PIX is driving is headed for a cliff and they are to busy messing with the radio to see where they are going. Here's an idea, instead of our quitting the game, why don't YOU quit making 「dookied」 statements about posts you haven't read, don't understand and seem incapable of contributing anything useful to. HEY BUB, its a game... ya dont like it than play something else. If im the only one on this forum that doesnt follow the hive mind than so be it. Not agreeing with people that post here more often doesnt mean I dont understand what they're saying... what a dense thing to infer. Its so difficult for you to comprehend someone not whining on these forums about each new updates that you call the games company my masters lol. You're the one getting bent over me disagreeing with "older members" so it seems like they're your masters that your willing to get on your knees for as soon as someone disagrees. Go on and give your masters a taste of what that mouth do. Its what you do best, bub
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Post by sm94 on Apr 22, 2018 14:28:00 GMT -5
**interupting the hate pix circlejerk** Guys....this is the first we heard of them. CHILL OUT. They'll go through changes before they hit live server. Stop with the "pix nails in the coffin just got six inches longer, grave got __ deeper" its so repetitive and you sound like ?falafel?ing trump with his "wall just got 6 feet taller". Lets be honest.. either way you guys will complain, it doesnt matter what Pix does. Stop "threatening" to uninstall or go to BoT.. and just do it.. no one cares, snowflakes. Sure... worked great with the Dash release, Pix totally removed the second dash. And the Shocktrain was reined in nicely before they released it. So everything is in good hands and we live in the best of all possible worlds. It sounds more as if you're upset that your personal opinion of whats OP wasnt taken into account. I'll agree with the shocktrains initial release. I dont mean this to be taken as an insult but your comment sounds a lot like "pix didnt do what I wanted them to, or take into account what I think is overpowered". It just sounds that you were overwhelmed with the dash bots being the first bots with a special that holds two charges, after beeing se used to the griffins one jump, carnages one rush, Now there are bots such as strider with 5 dashes, a descend bot WITH an explosive landing, raven with a double jump. What you were mad at was just the start of the direction pix chose to take the game. You're entitled to think all the new bots are OP but at the end of the day that's your opinion. Hope you see what im saying and dont take it offensively.
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Post by Sgt. Beacon on Apr 22, 2018 17:02:19 GMT -5
Yes. How dare we 「female dog」. I mean businesses that follow industry standards, that's normal. Unfortunately, yes there plenty of people that have excepted "hey, it's the industry standard, learn to deal with it. I only want hear positive things." Except when there's nothing positive about a totally 「fluffernutter」ed up situation. Some 「fluffernutter」ing time between changes would have been a glorious 「fluffernutter」ing idea. But, oh no, we can't do that cause statistically we should have already been meeting industry standards. And, just to top it off. Every other game has gone to sucking after following the standards. So, blow me snowflake.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 17:02:47 GMT -5
My objection was simple. The fact that probabilities dont fit war robots or lol doesn't mean that in general randomness removes skills from gaming. This is a leap in logic. Well, you've misrepresented what I said, and your argument isn't consistent. I didn't argue that random chance remove skills or has no place in gaming. It certainly does, and this is what I said: Wherever random chance can be replaced with actual play, it should be. Obviously, it can't be in games like Battletech, you don't actually control and play each individual Mech so whether they miss or hit can be determined by chance. But we actually play the individual Mechs in War Robots, so chance shouldn't be involved, and its involvement can only serve to frustrate. We play competitive multiplayer games for fun, elements that are completely out of the control of players should be avoided at all costs if they can affect the outcome of an interaction. Research has shown that the negative feelings players have when adversely affected by random chance far outweigh the positive feelings players feel when positively affected by random chance. And that makes perfect sense, people want to be responsible for the positive outcome, and they don't want to lose because of something random, they want to be outplayed so they can learn from. Realism can be built into games without randomness. Barrels overheating guns if you fire too fast is a good example. It gives the player control, choice and offers counterplay options. The barrel only overheats if the player allows it. Also guns jamming if you fire too fast after X number of bullets is another. Good players will go right up to the limit, it becomes a learned skill. And they know the limit on their opponents weapon too, so they know exactly when they will stop firing. Those mechanics build skills for people to learn and master into the game. If those events were random, it wouldn't allow for that skill development. That example makes it clear than randomness has no place. Think about that in relation to this energized ammo. If I knew the 8th shot of a Taran was going to disable me, I could play around that. But if I don't know which shot is going to disable me, there is no counterplay. There is nothing to control, nothing to learn, nothing to master. Only poorly designed games offer this kind of garbage these days. But, you've gone from arguing that randomness was good in War Robots to agreeing it has no role, so I'm not sure what your arguing, I just wanted to make sure you knew your argument was a strawman. I am confused to be honest and need to go over your posts again and especially the last one, which made things more clear. Also I need to restate mine cause I am confusing you also. So let's help each other out 1. You said :"Randomness is the antithesis of skill" and now " I never argued that chance removes skills " . Iam confused If one is the antithesis of the other doesn't one remove the other ? 2. The fact that I like randomness to be present in general doesn't mean that I believe it fits every game I play and I would choose it. So I will argue for its merits, I will think of examples it can help a game Iam playing , but I will also state whether I believe it can incorporated successfuly and what role it has. This is what I did. I posted for it , I thought of examples like the splash spread that can be beneficiary against dash but I also posted that the time span is too small. I like nuclear power but I don't want a plant built in my backyard. If I post all this on a thread about nuclear power I have a strawman argument ? This is something I didn't make clear and I understand why I got you and probably others confused . My apologies I should have stated more clearly.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 18:26:45 GMT -5
Your approach is fundamentally different and so is bronzeknee's but that's taste in gaming. I play the mage class. There is always the probability of miscast . So there is a case I won't be able to reliably hit . I welcome this and I find it more interesting. Iam saying weapons jam. You are saying weapons never jam . Iam saying that a weapon jam is something I can't control in the midst of a battle and there is chance of happening. Hence the die roll. You are saying, no it will never jam, it will always fire and you will reliably hit the target, so no need to roll any dice. No problems. Each one chooses the simulator he wants. I have friens who tried playing RPG and got really frustrated ( especially warriors ) by not knowing exactly what will happen . They told me that they want to be able to plan exactly and that it takes away skill. Other warriors love it and say that when swinging a huge hammer in the midst of a storm on a head of a dragon something can go wrong hey]I always say : Weapons jam, we must simulate it and this makes me create richer and more diverse plans cause Iam not sure of the outcome. I think it's more challenging and requires more skill. . For War Robots if I could choose I would not have probabilities involved. It's a bloody 7 min on average game. My back up plans and strategy to reverse a bad roll go down the drain. So I agree with bronzeknee and with you for what's best in this type of gaming. My objection was simple. The fact that probabilities dont fit war robots or lol doesn't mean that in general randomness removes skills from gaming. This is a leap in logic. The fact that deterministic environment are very rich doesn't mean that such spaces paired with probabilities aren't richer . That's all. This is a gamers forum so I put forth this approach because we are gamers I should have put it in another thread and made it more clear. Just to be clear: I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but you're conflating different types of skill. In most RPGs, casters have less RNG, not more. The number of effective actions a spell-caster can take is limited by his mana-pool, spells per day, or similar effect. It becomes that much more vital that the action he can take are reliable. Chance-mitigation is a skill, it is not "skill". Call it an "Analytical" skill. Being able to effectively intuit or model the random qualities of a game does reflect on your skill at mitigating the impact of randomness, but it also has a negative impact on the overall skill-level of a game. This is because while the skill-cap on risk-mitigation goes up with every additional random factor, the skill-cap on all the more technically oriented skills (targeting, placement, cover-usage, etc.) all go down. I'm not saying "guns never jam" I'm saying a gun needs to not-jam reliably or its not really a gun. If I design a gun that does more damage than the combined health shield and Ancile on the toughest bot in the game, I could "balance" it by giving it a chance successfully fire equal to 1/(the number of shots the next best weapon would take to kill same bot). The weapon would be mathematically balanced, but in the process I've reduced all the piloting and gunnery skill impact to how effectively can I peak from cover, and replaced that no-longer relevant technical skill with the chance of a miss-fire. There is a reason games of chance are separately categorized vs. games of skill. No worries bro. There is no way in hell I would fight about a theoretical concept in gaming. If you took my wine away we would have a problem Now back to business ! A gun non jamming reliably is for me a high expected value of non jamming in 10000 repetitions . It's chance . So I can't distinguish it in the way that you do but then again I am a mathematician and it's hard for me to digest So as you can understand a mathmetically balanced weapon is fine by me ! What Iam really trying to say to you , to bronzekn, to zero and I keep failing is that for me it's AxB (set product). It's a paired set. Some of the elements of the paired set are governed by chance, thus reducing skill but the "skill" subset is there ,it's not gone and has the same cardinality. So while I understand what you are all saying i just can't agree with a decrease notion , since the set is there as a subset .
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 18:42:26 GMT -5
They have said this all is still a concept. Maybe some of the ideas will not be implemented. If all is than feedback is the thing to scrap or adjust. Those ideas r nice because why not hit a hydra/shock/sniper(currently 1100m)/scourge/zennit users to pieces w a special ability (since most of them r cowards).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 18:55:15 GMT -5
They have said this all is still a concept. Maybe some of the ideas will not be implemented. If all is than feedback is the thing to scrap or adjust. Those ideas r nice because why not hit a hydra/shock/sniper(currently 1100m)/scourge/zennit users to pieces w a special ability (since most of them r cowards). I just want an airstrike on a hydra bot and a bumblebee on a dasher waiting to pop out and shock
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 19:02:23 GMT -5
They have said this all is still a concept. Maybe some of the ideas will not be implemented. If all is than feedback is the thing to scrap or adjust. Those ideas r nice because why not hit a hydra/shock/sniper(currently 1100m)/scourge/zennit users to pieces w a special ability (since most of them r cowards). I just want an airstrike on a hydra bot and a bumblebee on a dasher waiting to pop out and shock Sounds all good to me. I want a Nucl.Strike on a Hydra or Goku's (level UltraInstinct KingKai x20) Kamehameha on top of his skull.
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Post by sm94 on Apr 22, 2018 20:00:48 GMT -5
Yes. How dare we ?female dog?. I mean businesses that follow industry standards, that's normal. Unfortunately, yes there plenty of people that have excepted "hey, it's the industry standard, learn to deal with it. I only want hear positive things." Except when there's nothing positive about a totally ?falafel?ed up situation. Some ?falafel?ing time between changes would have been a glorious ?falafel?ing idea. But, oh no, we can't do that cause statistically we should have already been meeting industry standards. And, just to top it off. Every other game has gone to sucking after following the standards. So, blow me snowflake. Dont be scared to "quote" me next time so I actually get a notification that you're trying to talk to me. As for the "blow me snowflake".. whip it out buddy, its only 「really happy」 if we make eye contact.
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Post by Replicant on Apr 22, 2018 20:55:12 GMT -5
No worries bro. There is no way in hell I would fight about a theoretical concept in gaming. If you took my wine away we would have a problem Now back to business ! A gun non jamming reliably is for me a high expected value of non jamming in 10000 repetitions . It's chance . So I can't distinguish it in the way that you do but then again I am a mathematician and it's hard for me to digest So as you can understand a mathmetically balanced weapon is fine by me ! What Iam really trying to say to you , to bronzekn, to zero and I keep failing is that for me it's AxB (set product). It's a paired set. Some of the elements of the paired set are governed by chance, thus reducing skill but the "skill" subset is there ,it's not gone and has the same cardinality. So while I understand what you are all saying i just can't agree with a decrease notion , since the set is there as a subset . This is going to rapidly exceed my math, but if a set product is your basis, then your error is assuming preconditions allowing for associativity and commutativity. Neither are valid assumptions.
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Post by Sgt. Beacon on Apr 22, 2018 21:21:31 GMT -5
Yes. How dare we ã??female dogã?. I mean businesses that follow industry standards, that's normal. Unfortunately, yes there plenty of people that have excepted "hey, it's the industry standard, learn to deal with it. I only want hear positive things." Except when there's nothing positive about a totally ã??falafelã?ed up situation. Some ã??falafelã?ing time between changes would have been a glorious ã??falafelã?ing idea. But, oh no, we can't do that cause statistically we should have already been meeting industry standards. And, just to top it off. Every other game has gone to sucking after following the standards. So, blow me snowflake. Dont be scared to "quote" me next time so I actually get a notification that you're trying to talk to me. As for the "blow me snowflake".. whip it out buddy, its only ?twinkle? if we make eye contact. There, I hope this makes you feel better. And, I'm counting my blessings that there is no way we could ever make eye contact. And, only a putz would suggest some thing like you did.
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Post by sm94 on Apr 22, 2018 21:37:31 GMT -5
Dont be scared to "quote" me next time so I actually get a notification that you're trying to talk to me. As for the "blow me snowflake".. whip it out buddy, its only ?twinkle? if we make eye contact. There, I hope this makes you feel better. And, I'm counting my blessings that there is no way we could ever make eye contact. And, only a putz would suggest some thing like you did. It's a joke, not a 「wee-wee」... try not to take it so hard. Count all the blessing you want, son. "God" has better things to do than making sure you dont gaze upon my ugly mug. - Sergeant Putz
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Apr 22, 2018 22:41:49 GMT -5
Sure... worked great with the Dash release, Pix totally removed the second dash. And the Shocktrain was reined in nicely before they released it. So everything is in good hands and we live in the best of all possible worlds. It sounds more as if you're upset that your personal opinion of whats OP wasnt taken into account. I'll agree with the shocktrains initial release. I dont mean this to be taken as an insult but your comment sounds a lot like "pix didnt do what I wanted them to, or take into account what I think is overpowered". It just sounds that you were overwhelmed with the dash bots being the first bots with a special that holds two charges, after beeing se used to the griffins one jump, carnages one rush, Now there are bots such as strider with 5 dashes, a descend bot WITH an explosive landing, raven with a double jump. What you were mad at was just the start of the direction pix chose to take the game. You're entitled to think all the new bots are OP but at the end of the day that's your opinion. Hope you see what im saying and dont take it offensively. I've never given Pix any feedback or opinion on their new releases so no, not upset. I have always been aware that Pix gonna do what Pix gonna do. Overwhelmed with a double charge on the Dash ability? No, I can handle things like that in games. Nice assumption though. I am not mad at this direction they are taking the game in but it does sadden me quite a bit. The game was far more interesting and well balanced before, with far less issues, and the forums reflected it. All the new bots are certainly not overpowered, the Hover comes to mind first, but it's not the non-overpowered stuff that causes people to complain the most (though there are those who dismiss anything not likely to flip the meta upside down as junk and complain about that). And yes, all of this is all of our opinions. Yours as well as mine. I stand by mine as I'm sure you stand by yours.
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Post by hyderier on Apr 23, 2018 0:12:47 GMT -5
**interupting the hate pix circlejerk** Guys....this is the first we heard of them. CHILL OUT. They'll go through changes before they hit live server. Stop with the "pix nails in the coffin just got six inches longer, grave got __ deeper" its so repetitive and you sound like ?falafel?ing trump with his "wall just got 6 feet taller". Lets be honest.. either way you guys will complain, it doesnt matter what Pix does. Stop "threatening" to uninstall or go to BoT.. and just do it.. no one cares, snowflakes. Pix lost this kind of trust, "chill out and and wait", with introduction of the 2nd hangar and Mk2 at the latest, if not before. BoT ain't here yet. But otherwise, yeah. I wish everybody just quit playing. I quit Android, and with the reduction of Ag payouts, I will most likely quite PC version as well, because once your progress stops in a system like War Robots league score based MM, the game basically stops being fun. Pix could make the game fun with no progress, but their business model isn't to make a good game (think about that).
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Post by $$SupportsNewHires/NewContent on Apr 23, 2018 1:19:31 GMT -5
They should launch a separate app and name it MAGIC ROBOTS and let War robots be the traditional game we all know.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 1:56:10 GMT -5
They should launch a separate app and name it MAGIC ROBOTS and let War robots be the traditional game we all know. I'd happily jump ship to a classic version / Brit bot version of War Robots, hell, anything pre-ELO would be nice.
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Post by $$SupportsNewHires/NewContent on Apr 23, 2018 3:34:08 GMT -5
They should launch a separate app and name it MAGIC ROBOTS and let War robots be the traditional game we all know. I'd happily jump ship to a classic version / Brit bot version of War Robots, hell, anything pre-ELO would be nice. Yeah. Most of us got intki this game because we like robots with weapons and the warfare game play(with some futuristic elements) , not because of the fantasy aspect .
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Post by sm94 on Apr 23, 2018 3:43:18 GMT -5
**interupting the hate pix circlejerk** Guys....this is the first we heard of them. CHILL OUT. They'll go through changes before they hit live server. Stop with the "pix nails in the coffin just got six inches longer, grave got __ deeper" its so repetitive and you sound like ?falafel?ing trump with his "wall just got 6 feet taller". Lets be honest.. either way you guys will complain, it doesnt matter what Pix does. Stop "threatening" to uninstall or go to BoT.. and just do it.. no one cares, snowflakes. You should ask some of the old regulars about what happens you wait and see. When I first said the game was going in the crapper, they all said wait and see. This will be a good lesson for you of why random chance is bad for games. You'll get immobilized by Hydras someday, lose control of your robot and realize that not being in control isn't fun, it's frustrating. Enjoy it. And no, being honest, I won't complain either way. I gave them credit for the Bulwark which is going to change the meta in very good way. I gave them credit for giving away more stuff. Part of being credible is being able to be both critical and congratulatory. Trust me, if you've ever played world of warcraft, you're VERY familar with spells/debuffs that take over control of your character/bot. Yeah, its frusturating..bot not worth quitting the game over. And with these modules... there's only a CHANCE you'll be debuffed and lose control, in WoW it was every damn time that shadow priest clicked a button (every 10 seconds). There's a plethora of spells like that in WoW and its still a best selling game if im not mistaken. Im sure they're in many other online games aswell, its nothing new to be honest. These modules are only ONE part of the whole module system.. it says it in the article. I dont get why you guys are acting as if Pix said EVERY module is going to give reds a chance to root your bot after so and so damage is done. They said that about like 2 lol. Like i've said in other posts, lets see how they turn out when they hit the live server...if they suck, they suck. Atleast experience the new updates before bashing them. Just my .02
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 4:01:57 GMT -5
lets see how they turn out when they hit the live server...if they suck, they suck. Thus feedback on the concept, so that by the time they get to the live server, Pix can take peoples' concerns into account, after all, they're listening.
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Post by Forumite on Apr 23, 2018 4:35:10 GMT -5
I just love this kind of comment- Ya know- first the insults. Then the admonition to chill out. The gratuitous "Trump " comparison / slam. Then point out that your (we're) just a bunch of malcontents. Almost UNIVERSALLY followed by the "if you dont like it, just go ahead and quit" line. Hey Bub, did you bother to actually read the comments about WHY this sort of thing is a BAD CONCEPT? FOR ANY GAME?? Did it ever OCCUR to YOU that these people actually KNOW what they are talking about? Tell Your Masters that people aren't ?female dog?ing here because it's fun. They are doing it because the car PIX is driving is headed for a cliff and they are to busy messing with the radio to see where they are going. Here's an idea, instead of our quitting the game, why don't YOU quit making 「dookied」 statements about posts you haven't read, don't understand and seem incapable of contributing anything useful to. HEY BUB, its a game... ya dont like it than play something else. If im the only one on this forum that doesnt follow the hive mind than so be it. Not agreeing with people that post here more often doesnt mean I dont understand what they're saying... what a dense thing to infer. Its so difficult for you to comprehend someone not whining on these forums about each new updates that you call the games company my masters lol. You're the one getting bent over me disagreeing with "older members" so it seems like they're your masters that your willing to get on your knees for as soon as someone disagrees. Go on and give your masters a taste of what that mouth do. Its what you do best, bub I didn't "infer" anything. The thread is a discussion of the "proposed" game mechanics. Which was moving along just fine til you dropped in with your normal mantra (give or take so many words) that consists essentially of the following elements.. hurl a sarcastic insult, admonish everyone to "chill out, relax", whatever. You then downplay the discussion by inferring that the people expressing their opinions (that you don't agree with) are ungrateful whiners, who are being unreasonable for "not giving PIX a chance"". And this is ALWAYS followed by some variant of "If you don't like it , quit". You haven't made a single comment about the subject being discussed. Proposed Changes to the Game Mechanics. In fact, the only comments you've made have been rude, derogatory and insulting to the forumites posting their opinions on this thread , questioning their motives instead of the content of their words. Yes, yes, your obviously a free thinker, here to grace us with your profound insights into the game you've been playing for months. Yeah, no chance assimilating THIS GUY, Fellas! As to your homosexual advances, no thanks. I got no problems with the rainbow coalition. just folks that's all. But I'm not into it. Have fun at your next parade.
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Post by Forumite on Apr 23, 2018 4:41:23 GMT -5
HEY BUB, its a game... ya dont like it than play something else. If im the only one on this forum that doesnt follow the hive mind than so be it. Not agreeing with people that post here more often doesnt mean I dont understand what they're saying... what a dense thing to infer. Its so difficult for you to comprehend someone not whining on these forums about each new updates that you call the games company my masters lol. You're the one getting bent over me disagreeing with "older members" so it seems like they're your masters that your willing to get on your knees for as soon as someone disagrees. Go on and give your masters a taste of what that mouth do. Its what you do best, bub I didn't "infer" anything. The thread is a discussion of the "proposed" game mechanics. Which was moving along just fine til you dropped in with your normal mantra (give or take so many words) that consists essentially of the following elements.. hurl a sarcastic insult, admonish everyone to "chill out, relax", whatever. You then downplay the discussion by inferring that the people expressing their opinions (that you don't agree with) are ungrateful whiners, who are being unreasonable for "not giving PIX a chance"". And this is ALWAYS followed by some variant of "If you don't like it , quit". You haven't made a single comment about the subject being discussed. Proposed Changes to the Game Mechanics. In fact, the only comments you've made have been rude, derogatory and insulting to the forumites posting their opinions on this thread , questioning their motives instead of the content of their words. Yes, yes, your obviously a free thinker, here to grace us with your profound insights into the game you've been playing for months. Yeah, no chance assimilating THIS GUY, Fellas! As to your homosexual advances, no thanks. I got no problems with the rainbow coalition. just folks that's all. But I'm not into it. Have fun at your next parade. Oops I messed up. You DID comment on the Proposed Changes to the Game's Mechanics...... By..ppphhhgfftttt!!! Comparing it to "World of Warcraft"......phfftt!!!!,,,.........HAAHHHHAAAAAhhaahaaa!!!! Hey maybe you could get mail.ru to buy out Wow and combine the two..mmmmmwwwwaahahaha!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 8:25:31 GMT -5
No worries bro. There is no way in hell I would fight about a theoretical concept in gaming. If you took my wine away we would have a problem Now back to business ! A gun non jamming reliably is for me a high expected value of non jamming in 10000 repetitions . It's chance . So I can't distinguish it in the way that you do but then again I am a mathematician and it's hard for me to digest So as you can understand a mathmetically balanced weapon is fine by me ! What Iam really trying to say to you , to bronzekn, to zero and I keep failing is that for me it's AxB (set product). It's a paired set. Some of the elements of the paired set are governed by chance, thus reducing skill but the "skill" subset is there ,it's not gone and has the same cardinality. So while I understand what you are all saying i just can't agree with a decrease notion , since the set is there as a subset . This is going to rapidly exceed my math, but if a set product is your basis, then your error is assuming preconditions allowing for associativity and commutativity. Neither are valid assumptions. Let's say red fires a punisher then Hydra and then stop with no probs. His weapons never jam. A={a1,a2} and it's cardinality which is 2 is just a set theory way of saying he can do two things . If I attach a prob to this jam or no jam then I need to sets. A for the action as before and B the prob. Lets have A as before and B={nj,j} from non jam and jam. AxB={a,b),aEA and BEB} is the set that describes all the possible outcomes. For example (a1,nj) is that when he fired that punisher the weapon didn't jam . Now we have a cardinality of 4. The "pure" skill set in your apporach would be the one where you have b=nj which is a subset. It's still there and whether it would plays out or not in one round, depends on the rolls . So technically not only it hasn't been killed by chance but now I have another subset of outcomes to consider; the ones where b=j. So the "skill needed", is as before (the b=nj subset) with the addition of the skill needed to counter the outcomes produced by chance (the b=j subset). So it takes more skill , but again this is a mathematical approach. I don't need the properties you mentioned ( great observation btw ) because the operator Iam using doesn't use them .As strange as it may seem the operators, which are functions on sets don't actually have to conform to any properties and this is why I love Algebra. You have whatever set you want and you define your own imaginary operator doing the job you want. If the operator you created is in compliance with some property you instantly get a ton of lemma and theorems at your disposal a kind of "reusing code" ?
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Post by Koalabear on Apr 23, 2018 10:43:02 GMT -5
I think that if they wanted a stun gun, they should have just made a stun gun as a weapon that did little to no damage, but froze the target for team to destroy. The energized ammo...that seems too OP. Sure, they can balance the module, but can they really do that and make everyone happy? Every X damage...so, what every 10,000th damage point will have 5% to root target? If the damage threshold is too high, or the percentage too low, no one will buy it. Conversely do the other way, and more people will leave the game. If they were going to do something like, wouldn't: every 10th shot does no damage but has 1% chance of freezing target, be better? That way, the best way to use the module would be with leadhose builds as that would increase the chance of freezing the target and capitalize on damage for those builds.
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Post by Replicant on Apr 23, 2018 12:09:33 GMT -5
This is going to rapidly exceed my math, but if a set product is your basis, then your error is assuming preconditions allowing for associativity and commutativity. Neither are valid assumptions. Let's say red fires a punisher then Hydra and then stop with no probs. His weapons never jam. A={a1,a2} and it's cardinality which is 2 is just a set theory way of saying he can do two things . If I attach a prob to this jam or no jam then I need to sets. A for the action as before and B the prob. Lets have A as before and B={nj,j} from non jam and jam. AxB={a,b),aEA and BEB} is the set that describes all the possible outcomes. For example (a1,nj) is that when he fired that punisher the weapon didn't jam . Now we have a cardinality of 4. The "pure" skill set in your apporach would be the one where you have b=nj which is a subset. It's still there and whether it would plays out or not in one round, depends on the rolls . So technically not only it hasn't been killed by chance but now I have another subset of outcomes to consider; the ones where b=j. So the "skill needed", is as before (the b=nj subset) with the addition of the skill needed to counter the outcomes produced by chance (the b=j subset). So it takes more skill , but again this is a mathematical approach. I don't need the properties you mentioned ( great observation btw ) because the operator Iam using doesn't use them .As strange as it may seem the operators, which are functions on sets don't actually have to conform to any properties and this is why I love Algebra. You have whatever set you want and you define your own imaginary operator doing the job you want. If the operator you created is in compliance with some property you instantly get a ton of lemma and theorems at your disposal a kind of "reusing code" ? Then you need to identify the applied form of the imaginary operator. The way you are manipulating "skill" hand-waves away the impact increasing the possibility of a jam has on decreasing the relevance of technical skill. I can algebraically manipulate imaginary numbers. That doesn't mean complex numbers are relevant or useful in any given practical application. In your hypothetical you conclude the hybrid scenario takes more skill, but your model does not address the increase of one type of skill vs. the decrease of another. This is why you do need those properties. You are counting apples and oranges and calling the sum "fruit." This is true, of course, but oranges are useless to a baker making apple pies.
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Post by sm94 on Apr 23, 2018 13:06:01 GMT -5
I didn't "infer" anything. The thread is a discussion of the "proposed" game mechanics. Which was moving along just fine til you dropped in with your normal mantra (give or take so many words) that consists essentially of the following elements.. hurl a sarcastic insult, admonish everyone to "chill out, relax", whatever. You then downplay the discussion by inferring that the people expressing their opinions (that you don't agree with) are ungrateful whiners, who are being unreasonable for "not giving PIX a chance"". And this is ALWAYS followed by some variant of "If you don't like it , quit". You haven't made a single comment about the subject being discussed. Proposed Changes to the Game Mechanics. In fact, the only comments you've made have been rude, derogatory and insulting to the forumites posting their opinions on this thread , questioning their motives instead of the content of their words. Yes, yes, your obviously a free thinker, here to grace us with your profound insights into the game you've been playing for months. Yeah, no chance assimilating THIS GUY, Fellas! As to your homosexual advances, no thanks. I got no problems with the rainbow coalition. just folks that's all. But I'm not into it. Have fun at your next parade. Oops I messed up. You DID comment on the Proposed Changes to the Game's Mechanics...... By..ppphhhgfftttt!!! Comparing it to "World of Warcraft"......phfftt!!!!,,,.........HAAHHHHAAAAAhhaahaaa!!!! Hey maybe you could get mail.ru to buy out Wow and combine the two..mmmmmwwwwaahahaha! Nice contribution to the community, thanks for showing us all just how cancerous you really are. You should work on that league ranking instead of dwelling on a mobile game forum like a condescending old fart. Such a toxic mentality you have.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 16:57:23 GMT -5
Let's say red fires a punisher then Hydra and then stop with no probs. His weapons never jam. A={a1,a2} and it's cardinality which is 2 is just a set theory way of saying he can do two things . If I attach a prob to this jam or no jam then I need to sets. A for the action as before and B the prob. Lets have A as before and B={nj,j} from non jam and jam. AxB={a,b),aEA and BEB} is the set that describes all the possible outcomes. For example (a1,nj) is that when he fired that punisher the weapon didn't jam . Now we have a cardinality of 4. The "pure" skill set in your apporach would be the one where you have b=nj which is a subset. It's still there and whether it would plays out or not in one round, depends on the rolls . So technically not only it hasn't been killed by chance but now I have another subset of outcomes to consider; the ones where b=j. So the "skill needed", is as before (the b=nj subset) with the addition of the skill needed to counter the outcomes produced by chance (the b=j subset). So it takes more skill , but again this is a mathematical approach. I don't need the properties you mentioned ( great observation btw ) because the operator Iam using doesn't use them .As strange as it may seem the operators, which are functions on sets don't actually have to conform to any properties and this is why I love Algebra. You have whatever set you want and you define your own imaginary operator doing the job you want. If the operator you created is in compliance with some property you instantly get a ton of lemma and theorems at your disposal a kind of "reusing code" ? Then you need to identify the applied form of the imaginary operator. The way you are manipulating "skill" hand-waves away the impact increasing the possibility of a jam has on decreasing the relevance of technical skill. I can algebraically manipulate imaginary numbers. That doesn't mean complex numbers are relevant or useful in any given practical application. In your hypothetical you conclude the hybrid scenario takes more skill, but your model does not address the increase of one type of skill vs. the decrease of another. This is why you do need those properties. You are counting apples and oranges and calling the sum "fruit." This is true, of course, but oranges are useless to a baker making apple pies. 1. I did. It's the classic product of two sets. I stated clearly AxB = ... This is the operator and it's not an imaginary operator. Check the beggining of the post. A = .. B=... and the operator on them AxB=... After that I commented why I like algebra and what you can do with it but on the topic I gave a specific example. 2. Iam not using complex numbers.One set is A as I denoted it and the other is B whose elements are the probs and thus range from 0 to 1. Complex numbers don't come into AxB if you check it's definition. The word imaginary was used later on, reageding what you can do with the operators in algebra and after the definition of the sets and the operator on them . 3. Its not apples and oranges because the actions you will take in case the weapons jam, are in fact permutations of the actions you would take if it doesn't , , since there is a specific allowed set of actions. Example: You walk and you jump. In a game without probs you would just say I will select one of these two and it will happen. In a game with probs you plan : 1. Things could happen as before or 2. If I press jump and I don't jump I have to walk afterwards since the jump is cooling down. If I walk then I will have to jump afterwards. Since walk and jump are skill based before they are also now. So you are adding oranges to oranges.
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Post by Replicant on Apr 23, 2018 17:22:22 GMT -5
Then you need to identify the applied form of the imaginary operator. The way you are manipulating "skill" hand-waves away the impact increasing the possibility of a jam has on decreasing the relevance of technical skill. I can algebraically manipulate imaginary numbers. That doesn't mean complex numbers are relevant or useful in any given practical application. In your hypothetical you conclude the hybrid scenario takes more skill, but your model does not address the increase of one type of skill vs. the decrease of another. This is why you do need those properties. You are counting apples and oranges and calling the sum "fruit." This is true, of course, but oranges are useless to a baker making apple pies. 1. I did. It's the classic product of two sets. I stated clearly AxB = ... This is the operator and it's not an imaginary operator. Check the beggining of the post. A = .. B=... and the operator on them AxB=... After that I commented why I like algebra and what you can do with it but on the topic I gave a specific example. 2. Iam not using complex numbers.One set is A as I denoted it and the other is B whose elements are the probs and thus range from 0 to 1. Complex numbers don't come into AxB if you check it's definition. The word imaginary was used later on, reageding what you can do with the operators in algebra and after the definition of the sets and the operator on them . 3. Its not apples and oranges because the actions you will take in case the weapons jam, are in fact permutations of the actions you would take if it doesn't , , since there is a specific allowed set of actions. Example: You walk and you jump. In a game without probs you would just say I will select one of these two and it will happen. In a game with probs you plan : 1. Things could happen as before or 2. If I press jump and I don't jump I have to walk afterwards since the jump is cooling down. If I walk then I will have to jump afterwards. Since walk and jump are skill based before they are also now. So you are adding oranges to oranges. At this point we're talking past each other. Be mindful applying linear and non-linear functions to statistical distributions modeling "real" world interactions. While both can give you the same predicted value, they are not equal to each other. Cheers @noen I enjoy the game-theory almost as much as I enjoy the game, and appreciate your having taken the time to respond.
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Post by Forumite on Apr 24, 2018 7:24:04 GMT -5
I didn't "infer" anything. The thread is a discussion of the "proposed" game mechanics. Which was moving along just fine til you dropped in with your normal mantra (give or take so many words) that consists essentially of the following elements.. hurl a sarcastic insult, admonish everyone to "chill out, relax", whatever. You then downplay the discussion by inferring that the people expressing their opinions (that you don't agree with) are ungrateful whiners, who are being unreasonable for "not giving PIX a chance"". And this is ALWAYS followed by some variant of "If you don't like it , quit". You haven't made a single comment about the subject being discussed. Proposed Changes to the Game Mechanics. In fact, the only comments you've made have been rude, derogatory and insulting to the forumites posting their opinions on this thread , questioning their motives instead of the content of their words. Yes, yes, your obviously a free thinker, here to grace us with your profound insights into the game you've been playing for months. Yeah, no chance assimilating THIS GUY, Fellas! As to your homosexual advances, no thanks. I got no problems with the rainbow coalition. just folks that's all. But I'm not into it. Have fun at your next parade. You're in Diamond league, lol just STFU. Dont @ me, gramps. Too busy playing War Robots, you should shutup and do the same. Cheezits!! I thought "you people" were supposed to be happy and carefree.... Don't take rejection very good, do ya? Look it's nothing personal, I just like ladies, thats all. As to my league, who cares? You think the league your in is an indicator of your prowess on the battlefield? Dream on , pal. And I'm not in diamond anymore. Im bouncing around in silver/gold. I usually run 2 lights, 2 mediums and a heavy . And I'll run a HOVER now and then. I get to play plenty of champs and masters down there tho and look forward to more with the event coming up.. I like how you avoid the grist of something and go straight to the name calling. Doesn't bother me. I know you wouldn't talk like that to me in person, so I just write it off as quirk in your personality. Tell ya what tho, boy, I'm building a 6 pack hangar. Why don't you? We can settle any differences we have like Men. (vs. What your doing).
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Post by sm94 on Apr 24, 2018 11:59:41 GMT -5
You're in Diamond league, lol just STFU. Dont @ me, gramps. Too busy playing War Robots, you should shutup and do the same. Cheezits!! I thought "you people" were supposed to be happy and carefree.... Don't take rejection very good, do ya? Look it's nothing personal, I just like ladies, thats all. As to my league, who cares? You think the league your in is an indicator of your prowess on the battlefield? Dream on , pal. And I'm not in diamond anymore. Im bouncing around in silver/gold. I usually run 2 lights, 2 mediums and a heavy . And I'll run a HOVER now and then. I get to play plenty of champs and masters down there tho and look forward to more with the event coming up.. I like how you avoid the grist of something and go straight to the name calling. Doesn't bother me. I know you wouldn't talk like that to me in person, so I just write it off as quirk in your personality. Tell ya what tho, boy, I'm building a 6 pack hangar. Why don't you? We can settle any differences we have like Men. (vs. What your doing). You're extremely homophobic and its sad that I just saw another post of yours where you left a clan after the Champions League was xenophobic and racist. Its a bit hypocritical of you. Try to refrain from quoting me or any other attemps of getting my attention, this back and forth bickering is below me. If I see you on the field, so be it. If not than who cares. Something something kill red!
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