psybe
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Post by psybe on Nov 30, 2017 23:21:07 GMT -5
Wondering if anyone has both scourges and shock trains and can tell me which they prefer to use. Also, which bots out of Bulgasari or Haechi would you put them on. I find that shock trains are really brutal at long range but it’s easy to destroy the wielding bot once you close in, whereas scourges are harder to get close to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 2:17:52 GMT -5
Shocks are *much* better than Scourges, at least currently.
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weaksauce
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Post by weaksauce on Dec 1, 2017 3:02:57 GMT -5
Guess I'll step up and try to give my take. Not sure how helpful it will be. Both have many pros, and cons. The shocktrain seems the most hated so I will begin there. Shocktrain is possibly the best mid-range weapon in the game. (Depending on opinion of user. Zues will out damage on paper, but Shocktrain should always kill the Zeus user in game. Nobody is going to stand around and just let the Zues shoot them over and over) Pros include fast burst damage, high damage per strike, relatively fast reload, skips energy shields and some armor, sometimes. Chain damage. Cons: not that great for any up close encounter. it misses quite often if bots are in motion, especially during dash, or jump. Will do partial damage if they are heading for cover. 3 second lock time. Notes: Description states it holds 5 energy charges, but it's not exactly like that. If you fire as soon as the first charge shows at ready, it does nearly no damage. Not one charge or 20%. More like 1-5% you have to let it charge some before you fire for a reasonable amount of damage. Best to wait for full charge always. Also, firing mid dash or jump is a 50/50 chance of hit/miss. It does not like anything moving when firing. Very touchy. Many misses for a lock on weapon. As for the range, make sure you withing the 500m. If your moving forward, and they are backing up and you fire right when you reach 500m it will miss many times as it falls short because they are still backing up. The weapon works good on Bulgasari and Haechi. On a Bulg, you have the benefit of physical shield and higher HP. On Haechi you have more speed and an energy shield. For 99% I feel it works best on the Haechi. The 1% is when the other guy has a Bulg. Then the higher HP wins. Both scourge and Shocktrain track targets, so can be used with the Bulgisari shield. Scourge. Love this weapon and it seems to be very under rated on this forum. In game it's a nightmare for most red. Pros: 600m range, respectable damage from a distance, 「slow」 damage up close, skips energy shields, tracks targets. Arch in firing trajectory so you can shoot over some things, hills ect. Cons: 3 second lock. Many on forum complain it's damage is weak, although I disagree. To understand and accept this weapon is to love it. On paper it has damage similar to a Punisher T. But in reality it's much nastier. No missed bullets. 100% hit rate. At 600m you can watch the red bots life drain away. 10 seconds will eat 1/4-1/3 of a bots life. At 350 you can kill most bots. Big tank like bots you can take 3/4 of the HP. At 50m or less it's insane. Level 12 fury, 190,000 HP. 5 seconds to death. Only use half your charge. Yes. Almost 200,000 damage is almost 5 seconds. Your level and milage may vary. Useage: on most bots this (and this I think is why many dislike it) weapon is average for the amount of time needed to be exposed to incoming fire. Where it really shines is on the Bulgasari. This combo can walk down any bot in the gave 1v1 hands down as long as you have room to manuver. Only other bot combo that would give it problems would be something with tempests, but If you can move around a little you will be fine. This combo does not like knife fighting with orkans, keep your range and you will kill anything. Using the shield and finding your angles is a MUST. Situational awareness is a MUST. To use properly you have to know what's going on at all times because you play half blind. You have to use target lock and thread a fine line at all times. But the pay off is when you walk through 3 Ancilots one after another and still have a good chunk of your life left to hunt more reds. Both weapons are fantastic. Both have places in my hanger. I base my in battle choices on what the red are using. Lots of snipers and energy weapons, use scourge Bulgasari, wipe out the snipers, jumpers, and Ancilots. Lots of rockets and missles, use the Haechi and zap them all from outside Orkan range. Easy. So sorry that was as long as it was. Seemed like you were looking for some real life use info beyond the wiki and forum bashing of new things. Hope you find your way and what works for you
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Post by Fry on Dec 1, 2017 3:16:55 GMT -5
Guess I'll step up and try to give my take. Not sure how helpful it will be. Both have many pros, and cons. The shocktrain seems the most hated so I will begin there. Shocktrain is possibly the best mid-range weapon in the game. Pros include fast burst damage, high damage per strike, relatively fast reload, skips energy shields and some armor, sometimes. Chain damage. Cons: not that great for any up close encounter. it misses quite often if bots are in motion, especially during dash, or jump. Will do partial damage if they are heading for cover. 3 second lock time. Notes: Description states it holds 5 energy charges, but it's not exactly like that. If you fire as soon as the first charge shows at ready, it does nearly no damage. Not one charge or 20%. More like 1-5% you have to let it charge some before you fire for a reasonable amount of damage. Best to wait for full charge always. Also, firing mid dash or jump is a 50/50 chance of hit/miss. It does not like anything moving when firing. Very touchy. Many misses for a lock on weapon. As for the range, make sure you withing the 500m. If your moving forward, and they are backing up and you fire right when you reach 500m it will miss many times as it falls short because they are still backing up. The weapon works good on Bulgasari and Haechi. On a Bulg, you have the benefit of physical shield and higher HP. On Haechi you have more speed and an energy shield. For 99% I feel it works best on the Haechi. The 1% is when the other guy has a Bulg. Then the higher HP wins. Both scourge and Shocktrain track targets, so can be used with the Bulgisari shield. Scourge. Love this weapon and it seems to be very under rated on this forum. In game it's a nightmare for most red. Pros: 600m range, respectable damage from a distance, 「slow」 damage up close, skips energy shields, tracks targets. Arch in firing trajectory so you can shoot over some things, hills ect. Cons: 3 second lock. Many on forum complain it's damage is weak, although I disagree. To understand and accept this weapon is to love it. On paper it has damage similar to a Punisher T. But in reality it's much nastier. No missed bullets. 100% hit rate. At 600m you can watch the red bots life drain away. 10 seconds will eat 1/4-1/3 of a bots life. At 350 you can kill most bots. Big tank like bots you can take 3/4 of the HP. At 50m or less it's insane. Level 12 fury, 190,000 HP. 5 seconds to death. Only use half your charge. Yes. Almost 200,000 damage is almost 5 seconds. Your level and milage may vary. Useage: on most bots this (and this I think is why many dislike it) weapon is average for the amount of time needed to be exposed to incoming fire. Where it really shines is on the Bulgasari. This combo can walk down any bot in the gave 1v1 hands down as long as you have room to manuver. Only other bot combo that would give it problems would be something with tempests, but If you can move around a little you will be fine. This combo does not like knife fighting with orkans, keep your range and you will kill anything. Using the shield and finding your angles is a MUST. Situational awareness is a MUST. To use properly you have to know what's going on at all times because you play half blind. You have to use target lock and thread a fine line at all times. But the pay off is when you walk through 3 Ancilots one after another and still have a good chunk of your life left to hunt more reds. Both weapons are fantastic. Both have places in my hanger. I base my in battle choices on what the red are using. Lots of snipers and energy weapons, use scourge Bulgasari, wipe out the snipers, jumpers, and Ancilots. Lots of rockets and missles, use the Haechi and zap them all from outside Orkan range. Easy. So sorry that was as long as it was. Seemed like you were looking for some real life use info beyond the wiki and forum bashing of new things. Hope you find your way and what works for you I liked your information on the matter.I have a question.What do you think about Kumiho+ Shocktrain?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 3:24:19 GMT -5
Guess I'll step up and try to give my take. Not sure how helpful it will be. ..snipped for readability.. Good post, good points. I'll add a few comments tho: I feel shocks work better on bulga on long range maps since you have shield to protect you vs trebs, zeus and (sometimes) other shocktrain users. Rdb's aren't really an issue since you can dash out of their range quickly after unloading. Also, I find that I'm often up against shock guys in early/mid game, and there the bulga's massive health gives a distinct advantage. Otoh, shocks on a Haechi allow you to navigate cover more quickly. Especially on moon, an early shocktrain haechi shooting through the low tunnel can be devastating. About Scourge... I have 3 level 12 scourges, and although I occasionally see them being used effectively, they never really worked for me. Up close (15m distance) they do the exact same damage as Tarans, however, in any other range they are outclassed by other weapons. I'm not sure exactly why they don't work for me, but I guess it's because I'm used to sticking at a certain range based on the particular bot I'm in and I'd expect that effective scourge usage requires you to have a more fluid approach to range. I will say that I definitely regret upgrading mine. Ymmv.
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weaksauce
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Post by weaksauce on Dec 1, 2017 4:51:17 GMT -5
Fry I have never run them on the Kumiho, but, the 3 times I have seen it we're on red team, and they were Super nasty. At 500m they dash so much, it's hard as FK to hit them. Zap zap zap. Extremely frustrating build to fight in a city map. This leads me too: @nixpilot I see what your saying with the Bulg and Shocktrain, but just as you said, the Haechi has the better mobility and therefore hit and run guerilla style as the weapon likes to run. The only better bot to run it would be the Kumiho. I personally prefer the Haechi shield and 3rd medium hard point over the speed. The the Kumiho is the ultimate platform. Deadly ninja that one with a good pilot. As for your thoughts on scourge, I also agree with some of your points. But with random bots, maps, and players, it is one of the best all-around builds for nearly all situations (Not all, mind you, but nearly) If I need a Tank to take a beacon, easy. If red team drops 3-4 snipers or Zeus Furys, easy. Energy Griffin AND Ancilot red about to take your beacon and only you notice? LOL. Yes, at many points, other builds seem better. At 1000m Treb Butch is the winner.....but not really. Treb Butch will never kill Bulg Scourge 1v1. Ever. Zues fury does waaaaaaay more damage at 600m. But again, would never kill a Bulg scourge 1v1. If piloted well, the Bulg may have 100% health after killing both of them. At 350m or less? Vis an energy Griffin? Ancilot? Or hell even a taran Haechi? Neither have a chance 1v1. 2 on 1 maybe, with good pilots. Maybe. Yeah, on paper, maybe some other bots can fill a niche roll better. In game, Scourge Bulgasari fills many rolls, and fills them exceedingly well. I'm biased tho as it's my favorite go to bot when the SHTF, and it's time to get nasty.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 6:16:31 GMT -5
Fry I have never run them on the Kumiho, but, the 3 times I have seen it we're on red team, and they were Super nasty. At 500m they dash so much, it's hard as FK to hit them. Zap zap zap. Extremely frustrating build to fight in a city map. This leads me too: @nixpilot I see what your saying with the Bulg and Shocktrain, but just as you said, the Haechi has the better mobility and therefore hit and run guerilla style as the weapon likes to run. The only better bot to run it would be the Kumiho. I personally prefer the Haechi shield and 3rd medium hard point over the speed. The the Kumiho is the ultimate platform. Deadly ninja that one with a good pilot. As for your thoughts on scourge, I also agree with some of your points. But with random bots, maps, and players, it is one of the best all-around builds for nearly all situations (Not all, mind you, but nearly) If I need a Tank to take a beacon, easy. If red team drops 3-4 snipers or Zeus Furys, easy. Energy Griffin AND Ancilot red about to take your beacon and only you notice? LOL. Yes, at many points, other builds seem better. At 1000m Treb Butch is the winner.....but not really. Treb Butch will never kill Bulg Scourge 1v1. Ever. Zues fury does waaaaaaay more damage at 600m. But again, would never kill a Bulg scourge 1v1. If piloted well, the Bulg may have 100% health after killing both of them. At 350m or less? Vis an energy Griffin? Ancilot? Or hell even a taran Haechi? Neither have a chance 1v1. 2 on 1 maybe, with good pilots. Maybe. Yeah, on paper, maybe some other bots can fill a niche roll better. In game, Scourge Bulgasari fills many rolls, and fills them exceedingly well. I'm biased tho as it's my favorite go to bot when the SHTF, and it's time to get nasty. Again, good points. For shocktrains, Haechi definitely is better on short maps, but on long maps, I prefer bulga. Also, I do understand what you're saying about Scourge Bulga - in theory it makes so much sense and no other build fill as many roles as well. All I'm saying is that I couldn't make it work decently though I might have given up on that build too quickly.
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Post by seanh on Dec 1, 2017 7:00:16 GMT -5
I can only give the victims perspective, shocktrains kill me a lot, don’t know what to do about them really. Scourges are just more of an annoyance, yeah if you get caught somewhere random they might be a problem, but I can normally get away from them before they so any real damage. Also fine it easier to hunt down shocktrain Haechi’s than Bulgasari’s. Don’t get me wrong, they toast me 9 out of 10 times. But the few times I have manged to take them out they have been Haechi’s. Not sure why, could just be random, but Haechi pilots seem to be a tad more overconfident, don’t watch the range as much as they should. Health pool and shield probably comes into it aswell.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 7:24:08 GMT -5
I can only give the victims perspective, shocktrains kill me a lot, don’t know what to do about them really. Scourges are just more of an annoyance, yeah if you get caught somewhere random they might be a problem, but I can normally get away from them before they so any real damage. Also fine it easier to hunt down shocktrain Haechi’s than Bulgasari’s. Don’t get me wrong, they toast me 9 out of 10 times. But the few times I have manged to take them out they have been Haechi’s. Not sure why, could just be random, but Haechi pilots seem to be a tad more overconfident, don’t watch the range as much as they should. Health pool and shield probably comes into it aswell. A couple of pointers: At start of game, don't spawn early. On most maps you can see what the reds are bringing. If there's a shocktrain bot, go to a different part of the map or decide to hunt it down (as you indicate, on short range maps kumiho work surprisingly well vs an isolated shocktrain bot and pulling this off is a big plus for your team). Also, you need to be very aware of which of your teammates are likely to get hit by shocktrains and then avoid direct line of sight to them. On long maps, Bulga shocktrains have a tendency to avoid Trident Furys while all Haechi bots try to stay clear of Zeus bots, but you know that.
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Post by Koalabear on Dec 1, 2017 8:14:12 GMT -5
Just wanted to add a point that no one has mentioned yet. 1 Scourge or 1 Shocktrain = no big deal. 2 Scourge or Shocktrain = Big Deal. 3 Scourge or Shocktrain = PITA. And yes, weapon level has a lot to do with it too.
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Post by bugdoc on Dec 1, 2017 8:46:47 GMT -5
My only experience with the Shocktrain has been on the receiving end, and I REALLY HATE THAT WEAPON. It has no business being in this game as currently configured. It is OP even without chaining, but with chaining it's akin to Pixonic-sanctioned seal clubbing. Definitely the more powerful of the two weapons. Scourge, on the other hand, is a good, balanced weapon. It is difficult to use with the lock-on times (especially at short range), requires you to stay exposed to use it, but is quite flexible as both a mid-range suppression weapon and close-in knifer. I love busting Lancelot shields with it, and really love taking down Haechi's. If you can get the coordination down, it pairs well with the Bulg's shield. Dollar for dollar, the Shocktrain does far more damage, but the Scourge doesn't make you feel dirty for using it.
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Post by FlashAhAhh on Dec 1, 2017 8:58:47 GMT -5
My only experience with the Shocktrain has been on the receiving end, and I REALLY HATE THAT WEAPON. It has no business being in this game as currently configured. It is OP even without chaining, but with chaining it's akin to Pixonic-sanctioned seal clubbing. Definitely the more powerful of the two weapons. Scourge, on the other hand, is a good, balanced weapon. It is difficult to use with the lock-on times (especially at short range), requires you to stay exposed to use it, but is quite flexible as both a mid-range suppression weapon and close-in knifer. I love busting Lancelot shields with it, and really love taking down Haechi's. If you can get the coordination down, it pairs well with the Bulg's shield. Dollar for dollar, the Shocktrain does far more damage, but the Scourge doesn't make you feel dirty for using it. All good points, but when you say you must stay exposed to use scourge... it's the best corner shooting plasma in game, Especially on a Bulg, you can have two of them smashing targets that simply cannot get you
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Post by cmdrperalta on Dec 1, 2017 9:04:08 GMT -5
Guess I'll step up and try to give my take. Not sure how helpful it will be. Both have many pros, and cons. The shocktrain seems the most hated so I will begin there. Shocktrain is possibly the best mid-range weapon in the game. (Depending on opinion of user. Zues will out damage on paper, but Shocktrain should always kill the Zeus user in game if user knows what s/he is doing. Nobody is going to stand around and just let the Zues shoot them over and over)Pros include fast burst damage, high damage per strike, relatively fast reload, skips energy shields and some armor, sometimes. And usually, massive chain damage that sometimes results in you killing bots you never even see or engage.I edited your description of shocktrain to make it more accurate. The rest was spot on.
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Post by FlashAhAhh on Dec 1, 2017 9:07:04 GMT -5
Guess I'll step up and try to give my take. Not sure how helpful it will be. A spot on summary dude, especially about the scourge. I run a Scourge Bulg and LOVE it. Heaps of people underestimate it. I had a clan mate tell me to take it out of my hangar then showed him what it could do. You can shoot over HEAPS of cover, the number of spots I have found are just stunning. The damage is excellent and like you said you can face down ANYTHING if you have the awareness and the room to move. The only addition I would make to your comments is to add that tridents can also be a problem as well as tempest, but luckily you don't see them very much anymore. My scourges are 12, 12 Mk2 9 and the damage is very respectable considering the awesome sustain. That being said, it took me a lot of patience and time to get him running well, time VERY well spent. I'd drop my Zues fury before I dropped my Scourgasari, it just can fill so many roles.
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Post by stokr on Dec 1, 2017 11:09:54 GMT -5
Wondering if anyone has both scourges and shock trains and can tell me which they prefer to use. Also, which bots out of Bulgasari or Haechi would you put them on. I find that shock trains are really brutal at long range but it’s easy to destroy the wielding bot once you close in, whereas scourges are harder to get close to. Scourges for Bulg, as that weapon really lets one take advantage of the shield. Shocktrains for Haechi, 'cause you want to stay at range and the ancile protects it from rockets.
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Post by bugdoc on Dec 1, 2017 11:25:44 GMT -5
My only experience with the Shocktrain has been on the receiving end, and I REALLY HATE THAT WEAPON. It has no business being in this game as currently configured. It is OP even without chaining, but with chaining it's akin to Pixonic-sanctioned seal clubbing. Definitely the more powerful of the two weapons. Scourge, on the other hand, is a good, balanced weapon. It is difficult to use with the lock-on times (especially at short range), requires you to stay exposed to use it, but is quite flexible as both a mid-range suppression weapon and close-in knifer. I love busting Lancelot shields with it, and really love taking down Haechi's. If you can get the coordination down, it pairs well with the Bulg's shield. Dollar for dollar, the Shocktrain does far more damage, but the Scourge doesn't make you feel dirty for using it. All good points, but when you say you must stay exposed to use scourge... it's the best corner shooting plasma in game, Especially on a Bulg, you can have two of them smashing targets that simply cannot get you Agreed, and I corner shoot with my Bulg at every opportunity. However, you're still exposed to splash when corner shooting, while a Shocktrain build allows you to retreat completely under cover in between shots. I was simply emphasizing that doing damage instantly is a huge advantage of the Shocktrain.
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Post by imyourmom on Feb 8, 2018 14:23:11 GMT -5
Shocks are best currently because of there damage, quick reload and instant damage unlike the scourge. They NEED to nerf shocks a lot!!!
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