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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 15:11:13 GMT -5
Do you have a lineup of bots where you could test where this shelf is? I don't have many low level bots and it'll take time to level them up... or lots of gold for an experiment. Wish i didn't start my next long upgrade, haha. A 1/6 Fuijin gave me the same results. I should just speed level that to 2 this afternoon with gold and test out what level it stops shelving and adapts to give reasonable games. Right now it's between M1/6 and H6/0. I ran a bunch of matches with the following lineup (all weapons at base level): Gepard 4 - Ecu/Ecu/Pinata Gepard 4 - Ecu/Ecu/Pinata Cossack 4 - Orkan Destrier 3 - Ecu/Ecu Destrier 3 - Ecu/Ecu It started with the same opponents that I'd been seeing with my 4-5/8 medium hangar (all bots possible w/ levels 4-12, weapons around level 8). When I won a few games in row, I was up against 10/10+ bots. This is why someone might come to the conclusion that hangar doesn't matter. If there is a "floor" to what my hangar can be based on other stats, I really wish Pix would be clear about that. It's a pretty important piece of information.
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The Cricket, Sr.
Destrier
There is no quitting War Robots. There is only long breaks.
Posts: 59
Karma: 31
Pilot name: The Cricket, Sr.
Platform: iOS
Clan: The Black Death II
League: Diamond
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Cossack 11/10
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Post by The Cricket, Sr. on Jan 24, 2017 15:15:26 GMT -5
Oh wow I really thought it was just me! Have been hitting bots with all 3 of my Trident salvos but only 2% of their hp goes down when it should at least be 33%. And this problem is with other weapons too but not so significantily. Yes I am in range...xD It's me to, a few games ago I unloaded 4 pinta salvos into a gep at 178 meters and didn't even scratch his paint. Iv noticed now every few games my damage completely don't register and some game I will unload on someone, they will run away and the die up to 10 seconds later with me getting credit for the kill. Wow me too! This is for both the Trident Fury and Aphids. I've had no issues with the Orkan shots I've been unloading with my Fujin... hmmph.
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popsicleandhammer
GI. Patton
Posts: 134
Karma: 75
Pilot name: Popsicle&Hammer
Platform: Android
Favorite robot: Rog
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Post by popsicleandhammer on Jan 24, 2017 15:47:05 GMT -5
I wonder if the lost damage is related to the recent server lag. As in, you're firing but either you or the target are actually somewhere else, so the shot technically misses.
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lordevilbajskorv
Destrier
Posts: 13
Karma: 4
Pilot name: Lord Bajskorv
Platform: iOS
League: Gold
Favorite robot: Bulgasari
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Post by lordevilbajskorv on Jan 24, 2017 15:47:15 GMT -5
80%! I am at 60% now but normally around 50%. It seems the new MM is working as intended.
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Post by Dead Mechanism on Jan 24, 2017 15:53:12 GMT -5
Guys, is *anyone* running what would have been a Silver Tier set up AFTER your MM settled out?
I am noticing that pretty much everyone has moved into what would have been Gold Hangars. I am feeling that's Pixo's push, everyone's going to need a solid Gold Hangar all of the sudden...
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Post by zman on Jan 24, 2017 16:00:45 GMT -5
Guys, is *anyone* running what would have been a Silver Tier set up AFTER your MM settled out? I am noticing that pretty much everyone has moved into what would have been Gold Hangars. I am feeling that's Pixo's push, everyone's going to need a solid Gold Hangar all of the sudden... Are you Android or IOS? On IOS I've done some testing with a H6/6 Hanger and was seeing some solid High Silver Trash gold opponents, in addition to the noise of sorting. So, running something like a silver hanger once the MM quiets down is feasible, though if you are a skilled pilot you'll probably see Bot +1-2/Weapon+1-2 in many of your opponents.
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Post by boomsplat on Jan 24, 2017 16:06:48 GMT -5
Guys, is *anyone* running what would have been a Silver Tier set up AFTER your MM settled out? I am noticing that pretty much everyone has moved into what would have been Gold Hangars. I am feeling that's Pixo's push, everyone's going to need a solid Gold Hangar all of the sudden... Just perspective from a lvl 30 pilot - I tried but I didn't have the stomach for losing a bunch of matches just to run my silver line up. After five lopsided matches, realizing it was time to just stick to my lo gold line up. The couple of times we have put in silver lineups as a squad, we experience awful matches so don't even both any more. If you want to run a lower powered hanger, I think you have to put it in and just play until the MM recognizes your lower powered hanger through either some change in your hanger score or your win rate is low enough it triggers something or both. After that, you should hopefully settle down in some space where you will bounce around hopefully playing comparable opponents. The one challenge is since the old algorithm is no longer in effect on what used to constitute silver tier, I don't know what kind of competition you get lined up with with anymore based on your bot/wep levels.....what you may have thought of as silver tier competition could be all over the place nowadays with the MM focus primarily a performance measure with some hanger score. Cheers and good luck.
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popsicleandhammer
GI. Patton
Posts: 134
Karma: 75
Pilot name: Popsicle&Hammer
Platform: Android
Favorite robot: Rog
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Post by popsicleandhammer on Jan 24, 2017 16:12:54 GMT -5
I am pretty regularly seeing 6/9 heavies and level 6 Britbots in my matches now. Fuijins too. I'm not positive, but I think that used to be considered silver. I have not noticed many, if any at all, bots or weapons in the 9+ range. My hanger:
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popsicleandhammer
GI. Patton
Posts: 134
Karma: 75
Pilot name: Popsicle&Hammer
Platform: Android
Favorite robot: Rog
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Post by popsicleandhammer on Jan 24, 2017 16:14:10 GMT -5
Since the new MM hit (or at least the latest Android update) my win percentage has actually risen by nearly 10%>
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 16:35:47 GMT -5
Since the new MM hit (or at least the latest Android update) my win percentage has actually risen by nearly 10%> Were you running 10/7 bots? It doesn't seem to care much about bot levels anymore, so one could profit quite handsomely for having doggedly pursued a line of advancement that wasn't really viable under the old MM.
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Post by dadnatron on Jan 24, 2017 16:43:32 GMT -5
LMAO.... I won't last the week to see if it gets better THERE WILL BE A MASS EXODUS... . I've already decreased playing considerably. And the funny thing is, literally, just the day before the CRASH... I was finally thinking that perhaps I was going to make a push into higher tiers and buy some gold to do it. Now, there is no way I would put in even a $1. I reset my lowest team, a 3/4 Cossak/Punisher team I use to use to just have fun and clown around. I had it set on my first game post CRASH, and I was up against a full 12/12 team. Last night, after about a week of playing to theoretically reset my Elo to what it should be (according to the wishful thinking original poster), having seen my win% drop from 76% to 58% with my 6-7/7 'Real' team, I put my Cossak team back into the lineup to see who I was up against. Once again, I had 10-11/12 bots on both sides. I checked the sides after the match, and the lowest bot was a lvl 9 Stalker. This games is screwed... and I am out, if it doesn't settle down appropriately real damn quick. It just isn't worth my time to be constantly set against 11-12/12 teams with my 6-7/7 team. No matter HOW good of a pilot I am. There is no reasonable way to win against twice the firepower of a button pusher. Sure it can be done... but that isn't skill... its incompetence on the part of the other player.
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Post by zman on Jan 24, 2017 17:02:06 GMT -5
LMAO.... I won't last the week to see if it gets better THERE WILL BE A MASS EXODUS... . I've already decreased playing considerably. And the funny thing is, literally, just the day before the CRASH... I was finally thinking that perhaps I was going to make a push into higher tiers and buy some gold to do it. Now, there is no way I would put in even a $1. I reset my lowest team, a 3/4 Cossak/Punisher team I use to use to just have fun and clown around. I had it set on my first game post CRASH, and I was up against a full 12/12 team. Last night, after about a week of playing to theoretically reset my Elo to what it should be (according to the wishful thinking original poster), having seen my win% drop from 76% to 58% with my 6-7/7 'Real' team, I put my Cossak team back into the lineup to see who I was up against. Once again, I had 10-11/12 bots on both sides. I checked the sides after the match, and the lowest bot was a lvl 9 Stalker. This games is screwed... and I am out, if it doesn't settle down appropriately real damn quick. It just isn't worth my time to be constantly set against 11-12/12 teams with my 6-7/7 team. No matter HOW good of a pilot I am. There is no reasonable way to win against twice the firepower of a button pusher. Sure it can be done... but that isn't skill... its incompetence on the part of the other player. There is a weird bug for lvl 30 pilots, equipping 1/1 Lights will literally give you harder competition than equipping 6/6 Heavies will. I'm not sure yet why this is happening, but a lvl 30 pilot can't play the game with lvl 1 bots, this included a test of a 1/6 Medium as strongest bot. I haven't tested higher levels yet and am waiting for the MM to calm more before I can test easier. I need to do more testing, and want to make sure me Elo is stabilized so I get some more useful data. If you saw no different opposition with 3/4 ligths than your 6-7/7 I'd like confirmation of that, it is significant. I want to find out where the floor is for bots so people don't mistankingly put in too weak of a hanger and get clobbered. According to the theory of the OP, ie me, you are still playing in the levels of the game that are turbulant. I never said you needed a week of playing to reset your Elo either, but most people need to log in and play enough games to start to setting the game, and it should continue to refine itself for even longer to come. People tanking their winrate to club the way up, or "reset their Elo" etc don't help, they actively hinder the cause of balancing the game and settling the new MM down. If you are playing your 6-7/7 Hanger you should be seeing significantly improved competition. If you are holding a 58% winrate then you are a good pilot and hanger + Elo is likely giving you some good matches with maybe some people that are off the wall and still being sorted, or like Kull, intentionally tanked their winrate to club the rise. I wouldn't expect to get back to a 76% winrate, that indicated you were just too good to be playing in the pool you were in and your new pool if your hanger is 6-7/7 will likely be ~7/7-8/8 given you are a skilled pilot. The games should be getting closer, fewer blowouts when there isn't a 12/12 being sorted up, and you should take more varied placing on your team. One thing I've been noticing is on matches I feel like I'm doing well and expecting 1st or 2nd in damage I might be 3rd or 4th and the damage spread is shockingly small by pre New MM standards. What you need to be looking at is that is the median hanger in your matches. Are 4/6 on each team about where you are or slightly higher indicated your superior skill? Is is 5/6? Are you getting any games that feel about right. All of those are indications the system is working itself out. Right now you need to look past the sticker shock of seeing a 12/12 in your match and look at the median opposition, is that grouping tightening. It should be, and from what I've been testing it is, but we've still got a ways to go and all the people taking their winrate to club with overpowered hangers on the way up aren't helping anything at all.
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Post by Dead Mechanism on Jan 24, 2017 17:05:40 GMT -5
LMAO.... I won't last the week to see if it gets better THERE WILL BE A MASS EXODUS... . I've already decreased playing considerably. It just isn't worth my time to be constantly set against 11-12/12 teams with my 6-7/7 team. No matter HOW good of a pilot I am. There is no reasonable way to win against twice the firepower of a button pusher. Sure it can be done... but that isn't skill... its incompetence on the part of the other player. This is a growing sentiment. My clan has lost around 9 guys. No one is happy. No one can squad with each other. Clans are kind of useless now. What's more, I spent a lot of time and money building my "high silver" hangar and it's obsolete now. I don't know how to make Pix understand they've ruined the game, or how a lot of high level players are leaving in droves. They get fifteen "5 stars, Good!" rating per every "1 star, MM ruined the game" rating. W the heavy spirals and the focus on buffing range weapons, I feel like Pixonic is more focused on making new, casual players feel more like they are participating. People like us? Pony up and build a gold hangar, or quit. They don't seem to care. And if they intended for this to fix "seal clubbing" they've created an even bigger loophole to club with way bigger sticks than was possible in the past. The whole thing is just stupid.
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Post by Trogon on Jan 24, 2017 17:06:20 GMT -5
Guys, is *anyone* running what would have been a Silver Tier set up AFTER your MM settled out? I am noticing that pretty much everyone has moved into what would have been Gold Hangars. I am feeling that's Pixo's push, everyone's going to need a solid Gold Hangar all of the sudden... Um, considering I don't have a gold-level hangar yet, I will be running silver for some time to come...
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popsicleandhammer
GI. Patton
Posts: 134
Karma: 75
Pilot name: Popsicle&Hammer
Platform: Android
Favorite robot: Rog
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Post by popsicleandhammer on Jan 24, 2017 17:11:12 GMT -5
No, I was in mid bronze before. 2/6 pretty much across the board and mostly Cossacks at that. I typically dealt low damage but nabbed 3-7 beacons. When the update landed, I was at 58% win rate and occasionally partied in Yama. I'd see a Fijiun very rarely, and it was clear in those games that I'd been rubber banded. Since the new MM hit (or at least the latest Android update) my win percentage has actually risen by nearly 10%> Were you running 10/7 bots? It doesn't seem to care much about bot levels anymore, so one could profit quite handsomely for having doggedly pursued a line of advancement that wasn't really viable under the old MM.
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Post by zman on Jan 24, 2017 17:12:40 GMT -5
Lets not forget for every skilled player that was beating opposition senseless with 72% winrate that have now dropped to a 60% winrate there might be a dozen guys who were at 44% winrate that have now been faring better and contributing more to their teams and have crawled from that 44% to a 46% winrate and are liking the new MM, or will be as a little more time passes and the game stabilizes even more for them.
There are many more "bad" players out there than "good" players and a change than gets rid of most of the clubbers and farmers from the lower levels of the game with 70+ or 80+ or even 90+ winrates it is bumping gusy who were being brutalized with 36% and 40% and 44% winrates and making them feel like they are playing the game not watching someone win. Bet those people spend money too and are likely far less vocal on the forums and online community.
Pix has also established a pretty good track record, if the game really ends up as bad as so many of you say with the New MM pix will change it. They have proven to be adaptive, have a desire to balance their game, and enhance the gameplay experience. Lets give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Post by ΜØØSE on Jan 24, 2017 17:18:24 GMT -5
IF YOU STILL WANT OT BE A FARMER OR FARM SOME ......you load up 5 cossacks... just cap beacons tilL all 5 bots are vaporized.. don't even bother shooting other bots .... Once your bots are vaporized leave game start another rinse and repeat for about 30 battles. Now if the team wins a match and you got most beacons you;ll get beacon gold, if they lose ... well thats th epoint.. Then once your win % is 40% climb back to the top and rinse and repeat. Its not as efficient as seal clubbing in silver and bronze but if your like me and love to farm gold to speed up upgrads this is probably the new way of system manipulating.. As long as your not just sitting there doing nothing and take a beacon or do minimal damage your repair costs are nill and you won't be flagged for sandbagging when they add that into the game It blows me away that you are recommending a ranking manipulation strategy that screws over so many people. 30 games tanked x 5 other players per game = potentially 150 teammates getting ?firetruck?ed People who do this - and recommend it to others - are a cancer to this game. What sort of friendless, lead paint chip-eating, self-absorbed, ?firetruck?-everyone-else-but-me upbringing did these people have that made them so ingnorant of the principles of teamwork? It's socially ?special?ed.
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popsicleandhammer
GI. Patton
Posts: 134
Karma: 75
Pilot name: Popsicle&Hammer
Platform: Android
Favorite robot: Rog
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Post by popsicleandhammer on Jan 24, 2017 17:18:39 GMT -5
Is it possible that the new MM system factors in the stuff you have in storage, not just the hanger? Basically if you CAN run a gold hanger, it's expecting that you will. That would be an effective way to combat clubbing, as you'd have to sell all your fun toys in order to drop levels. It might also explain the odd matches that folks are reporting.
People like me, who were just starting off, would be unaffected, because our activite hanger reflects our current play level.
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Post by zman on Jan 24, 2017 17:34:39 GMT -5
Is it possible that the new MM system factors in the stuff you have in storage, not just the hanger? Basically if you CAN run a gold hanger, it's expecting that you will. That would be an effective way to combat clubbing, as you'd have to sell all your fun toys in order to drop levels. It might also explain the odd matches that folks are reporting. People like me, who were just starting off, would be unaffected, because our activite hanger reflects our current play level. Into your every match? No.... or at least I find it highly unlikely given the data I've seen. I can equip a 6/6 Heavy hanger and I see a good median hanger, likely around 7/7-8/8, basically a slightly stronger hanger with a slightly weaker Elo. Now, seeing some of the high strength people being sorted out with 10/10 or 12/12 I could come to the conclusion that my 9/10 bot in my hanger is causing that, but probably not, it makes much more sense being part of the sorting process. But, the MM is working as it should and sorting the stronger ones out and the median opponent is about right for me, I mean I rang a hodge podge of bots just to test out that level and could contribute getting 5-6th in damage and snagging beacons and contribution. That was fieling some 1/1 bots etc, so once the MM settles down I think that it was giving me roughly appropriate competition for a Heavy 6/6 hanger with me as its pilot. More time is needed to know for sure, but that leads me to believe the New MM is doing what it needs to and is actively making process. Now, when I equip a fleet of 1/1 Lights(Even a Medium 1/6) I find the matches nearly identical or at least as much as I can tell, to me running my strongest High Gold 9/10 hanger. This is the weird glitch I've been talking about for lvl 30 pilots that doesnt make much sense. Could this be glitching and using hanger potential, kind of a Error 404 Hanger not found, etc. Maybe. It could also revert to the highest hanger you've had, a previous matchmaking seed, etc. I really don't understand enough about this glitch at present except that it is awfully weird. Thanks for the idea, it is one I had considered as well. Can't rule it out for the 1st level bot glitch, but overall I find it less likely that other possiblilities. Keep the ideas and experiences coming!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 17:42:27 GMT -5
I understand their changing matchmaking but why they match 9/11/12 level bots or weapons players with 4/5/6 level players ?
This really makes no sense.
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Post by zman on Jan 24, 2017 17:45:03 GMT -5
I understand their changing matchmaking but why they match 9/11/12 level bots or weapons players with 4/5/6 level players ? This really makes no sense. Its a side effect of the Matchmaker trying to sort all the players and it does that by sorting people up. Weak Hanger + Established Elo = Strong Hanger + Default Elo When a strong hanger wins a couple matches like that they stop seeing them unless they are kind of a dirtbag and intentionally tank their Elo score to see easier competition in order to club them. Keep playing and it bets better as more and more active players login and establish their Elos.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 18:02:49 GMT -5
I understand their changing matchmaking but why they match 9/11/12 level bots or weapons players with 4/5/6 level players ? This really makes no sense. Its a side effect of the Matchmaker trying to sort all the players and it does that by sorting people up. Weak Hanger + Established Elo = Strong Hanger + Default Elo When a strong hanger wins a couple matches like that they stop seeing them unless they are kind of a dirtbag and intentionally tank their Elo score to see easier competition in order to club them. Keep playing and it bets better as more and more active players login and establish their Elos. Still, I think weapon and bot levels should be taken into account. Especially weapon levels should be equal or very close in my opinion.
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Post by zman on Jan 24, 2017 18:04:01 GMT -5
Its a side effect of the Matchmaker trying to sort all the players and it does that by sorting people up. Weak Hanger + Established Elo = Strong Hanger + Default Elo When a strong hanger wins a couple matches like that they stop seeing them unless they are kind of a dirtbag and intentionally tank their Elo score to see easier competition in order to club them. Keep playing and it bets better as more and more active players login and establish their Elos. Still, I think weapon and bot levels should be taken into account. Especially weapon levels should be equal or very close in my opinion. They are, they are just being completely overpowered as the Elo scores get set and things settle down. It gets better. I take it you are on Android?
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🌸M¡§$ M!©heL\_3🌸
Destrier
🐓🍭
Posts: 54
Karma: 30
Pilot name: M¡§$ M!©heL\_3
Platform: Android
Clan: [SI] self infliction
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: gareth
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Post by 🌸M¡§$ M!©heL\_3🌸 on Jan 24, 2017 18:05:36 GMT -5
Ehh screw it, i quit till they make another update (and they maybe fix it i can only hope). I sure as hell am not spending any more money on this game
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 18:05:49 GMT -5
Yes I'm a rookie playing on phone:) Btw I hope it gets better, because this is the best game ever that can be played on a phone I guess... Are there any games like this pls advise
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The Cricket, Sr.
Destrier
There is no quitting War Robots. There is only long breaks.
Posts: 59
Karma: 31
Pilot name: The Cricket, Sr.
Platform: iOS
Clan: The Black Death II
League: Diamond
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Cossack 11/10
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Post by The Cricket, Sr. on Jan 24, 2017 18:53:11 GMT -5
I am pretty regularly seeing 6/9 heavies and level 6 Britbots in my matches now. Fuijins too. I'm not positive, but I think that used to be considered silver. I have not noticed many, if any at all, bots or weapons in the 9+ range. My hanger: You on the test server? Molot Mk 2? ECC Thunder Renamed Thunder, along with Pinatas, Taran etc? Or is this on Android? Confuzzled...
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Post by wildboar on Jan 24, 2017 18:57:15 GMT -5
I understand their changing matchmaking but why they match 9/11/12 level bots or weapons players with 4/5/6 level players ? This really makes no sense. This is what has happened to me solidly this evening... Fed up with it now My 4/5 boas against > 8 rhinos, Galahads,, furys, griffins.. With much higher level weps Absolutely no chance ...
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 24, 2017 19:03:14 GMT -5
You on the test server? Molot Mk 2? ECC Thunder Renamed Thunder, along with Pinatas, Taran etc? Or is this on Android? Confuzzled... Android got 2.5 update a week or so ago,(includes some bot stat tweaks and weapon renames) shortly after the new MM dropped on iOS. The new MM dropped on Android a few days ago, but there's been no sign of the ver 2.5 update for iOS as yet.
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Post by zman on Jan 24, 2017 19:05:36 GMT -5
I understand their changing matchmaking but why they match 9/11/12 level bots or weapons players with 4/5/6 level players ? This really makes no sense. This is what has happened to me solidly this evening... Fed up with it now My 4/5 boas against > 8 rhinos, Galahads,, furys, griffins.. With much higher level weps Absolutely no chance ... I'm assuming you're on Android. Basically your low Hanger with established Elo and high level of activity gets the worst of it. Basically it is the guys like you who are sorting all the stronger bots out and up. It sticks, but gets better over time. I believe the IOS guys playing in your arena are finally seeing it calm down now. Weak Hanger + Established Elo = Strong Hanger + Default Elo And that is exactly where you are.
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Post by zman on Jan 24, 2017 19:16:53 GMT -5
You on the test server? Molot Mk 2? ECC Thunder Renamed Thunder, along with Pinatas, Taran etc? Or is this on Android? Confuzzled... Android got 2.5 update a week or so ago,(includes some bot stat tweaks and weapon renames) shortly after the new MM dropped on iOS. The new MM dropped on Android a few days ago, but there's been no sign of the ver 2.5 update for iOS as yet. It was originally slated for Android 17th, IOS 24th. Android was a day late, if I were a betting man I'd say tomorrow for 2.5 for IOS.
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