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Post by Poopface on Nov 16, 2017 13:34:48 GMT -5
So, my hanger continues to be a bit of a mess. I'm fully aware everything needs to be level 10+ (ideally higher) for best effects. Right now I have the following in use: - Quad-Tulu Doc
- Spydra
- DB Griffin
- PDB Griffin
- Thunder/Pinata Leo
Sitting in the wings are a Gunship Griffin, Lance (needing to be leveled more), and a Bulgasari (needing to be leveled more). Previously, I've done a Bullethose Griffin. I've also read about people mounting Punishers to Lances. I've been planning on mounting them to a Bulgasari. I don't have any Scourges or Shocktrains and my other Orkans and Tarans need to be leveled. I'm not overly married to any of the mechs above and am aware that eventually I'd be best off putting the Lance and Bulgasari to use instead of two of the others (application TBD). So the question is this: What do you think is the best platform for Punishers? |
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Post by Koalabear on Nov 16, 2017 13:44:46 GMT -5
For me, because I don't have 3 scourges, the Bulg is best with orkans. Putting punishers on the Bulg would be like putting tarans, albeit with less damage potential and more exposure of your front. I believe the Griffin is still the best "leadhose" platform with Rhino coming in second. I've done punishers on Fujin and it doesn't work well. You'd think it would be good, with 3 punisherT's, but the Fujin is too fragile to plasma. The Griffin's jump lets it retreat when it runs out of ammo, and the Rhino's speed lets it fall back - just not as fast. Technically, you could go into assault mode, fire off your punishers, and when they run out, drop the shield and continue firing with the punisherT's, providing an endless stream of lead. In practice, you'll likely be rocketed to death before you run out of punisherT ammo.
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Post by Nexsan on Nov 16, 2017 13:47:00 GMT -5
Bulg is probably the best Dash platform for Punishers. I know some people have had good luck w/ Galahad as a Punisher platform. Point is you need something w/ decent speed and protection that can follow your target. Leo is another good platform but slow.
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Post by Poopface on Nov 16, 2017 14:32:27 GMT -5
I believe the Griffin is still the best "leadhose" platform with Rhino coming in second. The Griffin's jump lets it retreat when it runs out of ammo, and the Rhino's speed lets it fall back - just not as fast. Technically, you could go into assault mode, fire off your punishers, and when they run out, drop the shield and continue firing with the punisherT's, providing an endless stream of lead. Regarding the Griffin vs Bulgasari, other than the ability to get up on top of an obstacle and shoot downward, I don't see a benefit of Griffin. Bulg has a larger health pool + shield, Bulg can get into cover faster when it runs out of ammo, and it also has more firepower in the 3rd Punisher 2 than two Punisher 1's from the Griffin. Regarding the Rhino, I agree the Rhino's shield is attractive, but the lack of ability to get out of trouble is a deterrent to me. |
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Post by robocain on Nov 16, 2017 14:37:07 GMT -5
Bulgasari all day long. The weapons are mounted high which is great for cornershooting. When your Punishers run out of ammo, point your shield to the enemy and dash into cover.
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Post by Koalabear on Nov 16, 2017 15:18:10 GMT -5
I believe the Griffin is still the best "leadhose" platform with Rhino coming in second. The Griffin's jump lets it retreat when it runs out of ammo, and the Rhino's speed lets it fall back - just not as fast. Technically, you could go into assault mode, fire off your punishers, and when they run out, drop the shield and continue firing with the punisherT's, providing an endless stream of lead. Regarding the Griffin vs Bulgasari, other than the ability to get up on top of an obstacle and shoot downward, I don't see a benefit of Griffin. Bulg has a larger health pool + shield, Bulg can get into cover faster when it runs out of ammo, and it also has more firepower in the 3rd Punisher 2 than two Punisher 1's from the Griffin. Regarding the Rhino, I agree the Rhino's shield is attractive, but the lack of ability to get out of trouble is a deterrent to me. I thought the damage ratio of the punisherT vs the punisher was 1.5? So doesn't that mean 2 punishers have more firepower than 1 punisherT? |
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Post by Poopface on Nov 16, 2017 15:26:32 GMT -5
Regarding the Griffin vs Bulgasari, other than the ability to get up on top of an obstacle and shoot downward, I don't see a benefit of Griffin. Bulg has a larger health pool + shield, Bulg can get into cover faster when it runs out of ammo, and it also has more firepower in the 3rd Punisher 2 than two Punisher 1's from the Griffin. Regarding the Rhino, I agree the Rhino's shield is attractive, but the lack of ability to get out of trouble is a deterrent to me. I thought the damage ratio of the punisherT vs the punisher was 1.5? So doesn't that mean 2 punishers have more firepower than 1 punisherT? I didn't think so, but to be sure, I just pulled up the data from the wiki. Here it is in Excel.  Looks like you're right. Three Pun2s = 14,850 cycle DPS Two Pun2s + two Puns = 16,028 cycle DPS Guess I need to rethink things. Again. |
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Post by Koalabear on Nov 16, 2017 15:31:05 GMT -5
Darn, you're fast with the data... saved me the trouble. And here I was thinking that maybe I should try out 3 PunTs on my Bulg! I like the ability to kill a light to medium, or seriously take down the health of a high level heavy though. Even though my orkans are level 8, they do pretty good damage.
So, in terms of pure damage potential, a Grif or Rhino still has the most potential due to the 4 hardpoints. But in terms of survivability, don't discount a punisher Galahad. When I used to run my Galahad with punishers, I could go toe to toe with a thunder/punisher Leo and chew it up.
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Post by Poopface on Nov 16, 2017 15:39:57 GMT -5
I'm not going Galahad (don't have one) or Rhino (not leveled since purchase). I could go Griffin again.
In general, I'm trying to sort out where I'm going with my hanger without wasting silver any more than I already have in the past. Part of the appeal of the Punishers was to help deal with Anciles. I really like the added mobility of the Bulg in the limited use (shelved it after the L10 Punishers were too nerf) and want to get it back into use.
With the Tarans, I get into trouble when I face off against Ancilots. With my DB, I get too close to Haechis and Tarancilots. Having a Punisher-equipped mech seemed like a good way to help sway the fight in my favor somewhat to manage the distance on a dime.
Whether the increased mobility (and health/shield pool) of the Bulg outweighs the loss of damage from the Griffin is my current debate.
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Post by Koalabear on Nov 16, 2017 15:45:37 GMT -5
True. You just have to play to the Bulg's strengths. If I weren't going with orkans on my Bulg, my second choice weapon would be tulus and staying at the 500m to harass reds. I consider the punishers as more of a flanker/support weapon. It's best played to add fire on a shared target, or shred shields. Give it a shot though and let us know. I have a pair of PunTs at level 7, so if you have good results, I might start bringing another PunT to level 7 and then all three to level 8 (which is my playground).
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Post by _psychø on Nov 16, 2017 15:50:49 GMT -5
I'm currently using the Griffin and I'm liking it, does really well dodging all those Tridents and RDBs becausec they will always try to kill you, however I think the Bulgasari would be better, sure it does less damage than a Griffin but you got a shield that will protect you against Zeus and Trebs, which will always try to get rid of you in addition to the ones above, you also get the dash ability which will also be good for dodging rockets.
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Post by F-A-H-Q on Nov 16, 2017 16:24:30 GMT -5
True. You just have to play to the Bulg's strengths. If I weren't going with orkans on my Bulg, my second choice weapon would be tulus and staying at the 500m to harass reds. I consider the punishers as more of a flanker/support weapon. It's best played to add fire on a shared target, or shred shields. Give it a shot though and let us know. I have a pair of PunTs at level 7, so if you have good results, I might start bringing another PunT to level 7 and then all three to level 8 (which is my playground). Tarans all day if an alternative to orks is desired. Tulus put you in a bad spot. His ability to corner shoot make tarans a very natural platform for plasma. Plus you eat ancilots with a taran bulgasari. He is so tall at close rage all 3 hit on top a lance head. Timed right you will never lose to a taran ancilot. Ork lance is super easy to win against as well. |
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Post by Ⓑⓞⓑ Ⓓⓨⓛⓐⓝ on Nov 16, 2017 17:14:25 GMT -5
I'm not going Galahad (don't have one) or Rhino (not leveled since purchase). I could go Griffin again. In general, I'm trying to sort out where I'm going with my hanger without wasting silver any more than I already have in the past. Part of the appeal of the Punishers was to help deal with Anciles. I really like the added mobility of the Bulg in the limited use (shelved it after the L10 Punishers were too nerf) and want to get it back into use. With the Tarans, I get into trouble when I face off against Ancilots. With my DB, I get too close to Haechis and Tarancilots. Having a Punisher-equipped mech seemed like a good way to help sway the fight in my favor somewhat to manage the distance on a dime. Whether the increased mobility (and health/shield pool) of the Bulg outweighs the loss of damage from the Griffin is my current debate. I have a Bulgasari with 3 level 10 Punisher T's. I can tell you from experience that tarans are better, unless getting those punishers to 12 makes a huge difference you just can't dish damage fast enough to have an impact against haechi before they hide, can't rip flying griffins a new hole before they land etc etc. What punishers do excel at is a great weapon during the random times the entire opposition is in plasma/orks and there isn't cover for them to close. The problem I have with punishers, and I love the idea of them dearly, is that there are better weapons up close and there are better weapons at 351-500m. Sure you'll occasionally catch someone that blundered into the open and tear them apart but 90% of the time tarans or orkans would do it better. Edit: They are great at tearing apart anciles, but haechi move too fast and you can't kill a lance in one clip... that's a lot of wasted time doing next to no damage vs a lance to break an ancile and a physical shield. |
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Post by Poopface on Nov 16, 2017 17:52:43 GMT -5
I agree about the Punisher 10s in the Bulg. It’s why I shelved it: my Pubs were 10, also. I’m taking them to 11 then I’ll see. Not much is very good at 10 in th Expert+ league play.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Nov 16, 2017 19:26:13 GMT -5
Bulgasaur or Griffin. I've seen the bulg with punishers used to very deadly effect.
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Post by stokr on Nov 16, 2017 21:11:28 GMT -5
Bulg. Good shield use can make them surprisingly durable, as well as help buy time for a reload to complete.
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Post by pirateb0t on Nov 16, 2017 21:44:53 GMT -5
I'm not going Galahad (don't have one) or Rhino (not leveled since purchase). I could go Griffin again. In general, I'm trying to sort out where I'm going with my hanger without wasting silver any more than I already have in the past. Part of the appeal of the Punishers was to help deal with Anciles. I really like the added mobility of the Bulg in the limited use (shelved it after the L10 Punishers were too nerf) and want to get it back into use. With the Tarans, I get into trouble when I face off against Ancilots. With my DB, I get too close to Haechis and Tarancilots. Having a Punisher-equipped mech seemed like a good way to help sway the fight in my favor somewhat to manage the distance on a dime. Whether the increased mobility (and health/shield pool) of the Bulg outweighs the loss of damage from the Griffin is my current debate. I have a Bulgasari with 3 level 10 Punisher T's. I can tell you from experience that tarans are better, unless getting those punishers to 12 makes a huge difference you just can't dish damage fast enough to have an impact against haechi before they hide, can't rip flying griffins a new hole before they land etc etc. What punishers do excel at is a great weapon during the random times the entire opposition is in plasma/orks and there isn't cover for them to close. The problem I have with punishers, and I love the idea of them dearly, is that there are better weapons up close and there are better weapons at 351-500m. Sure you'll occasionally catch someone that blundered into the open and tear them apart but 90% of the time tarans or orkans would do it better. Edit: They are great at tearing apart anciles, but haechi move too fast and you can't kill a lance in one clip... that's a lot of wasted time doing next to no damage vs a lance to break an ancile and a physical shield. I've run a pun griffin for awhile now and I still haven't replaced it in my lineup. I like it because it does serve a very specific battlefield role. There have been many times on different maps where the reds all jump in ancilots and start to play the siege game. Punishers thrive in this type of stalemate environment because you can wear down the energy shields quickly and murder ancilots caught in the open. One of my favorite moments in the past week was when reds all clustered under the bridge to protect center beacon on canyon and I just stood out at 400m or so and murdered like 3 enemy bots huddled together. A lot of ancilot pilots get cocky when it comes to their shielding and they don't realize how fast 6 barrels of high level lead can melt them. On specific maps like Shenzhen, valley, canyon, springfield the pun griffin can really shine. The thing about anything running punishers is that it's a very tactical weapon. It needs to be carefully deployed and utilized. It's definitely not a swiss army knife build. |
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Post by cmdrperalta on Nov 16, 2017 22:38:17 GMT -5
Not much is very good at 10 in th Expert+ league play. You know, I hear ppl say that all the time, and it is def true that sometimes I get outhit by higher level bots but I find that you can compete or even dominate many E3/D1 matches with bots and weapons that are in the lvl 8 range. |
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Post by BastionOW on Nov 16, 2017 22:42:51 GMT -5
Your best bet is probably a Griffin or a Bulgasari. You can use it as a heavy beacon capper in early game if you'd like.
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