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Post by moses on Nov 7, 2017 16:27:44 GMT -5
Having burned through 60-70k WSP and all the gold I had I am now pretty limited in the offers I can take up so trying to get the best bang for my no bucks.
I had not thought about trading gold for WSP as WSP had seemed kind of useless for a long time, but now with the low end offers 1300-1700 WSP seems a lot easier to reach than 400-500 gold. So it looks like the most effective option is to convert gold to WSP and take up those WSP offers instead of saving the two currencies separately.
has anyone done the maths on what is the optimal daily conversion for gold to WSP in the context of daily offers?
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Post by DBCooper on Nov 7, 2017 16:34:04 GMT -5
I can't eally say I've consideed it, as the ratio of 120 components (1.2% of a bot) for 1700 wsp equates to about 142k wsp for a bot... I stopped the rest of my math at that point.
Besides, I took those early offers that were more like 4 wsp per component, and just spent Au on the rest to complete a heichi via the card 'game'. That is the cheapest route, although it did require Au that I bought via another discount offer for RM. That was on my android / memu account; my ios account is generating wsp, but I'll probably use them for tarans or another carny.
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Post by moses on Nov 7, 2017 16:48:34 GMT -5
I can't say I've consideed it, as the ratio of 120 components (1.2% of a bot) for 1700 wsp equates to about 142k wsp for a bot... I stopped the rest of my math at that point. Besides, I took those early offers that were more like 4 wsp per component, and just spent Au on the rest to complete a heichi via the card 'game'. That is the cheapest route, although it did require Au that I bought via another discount offer for RM. That was on my android / memu account; my ios account is generating wsp, but I'll probably use them for tarans or another carny. Right - I was focused on haechi and kumiho and after using 12-15k gold and 60-70k wsp plus some silver and a couple of gold BM spins saved I managed both. I played the card “game” for both, was lucky with haechi and landed the components on 9th spin but Kumiho was last. As a result though I have nothing left of either currency, but would still like to land a free something else so I am trying to figure out the most efficient way to keep collecting. |
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Post by DBCooper on Nov 7, 2017 17:06:19 GMT -5
With the way the wsp's get more expensive as you go, it just becomes a balance between the amount of wsp it takes to get the pieces vs the time to generate them. You're probably right though, the typical 1700 wsp and 400 Au daily offers probably have a sweet spot where buying the 1700 wsp's becomes more expensive than the 400 Au.Ballpark figure, I'd say quit converting Au to wsp at the point where the price hits 4:1 (or 17:4 to be precise).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2017 19:20:17 GMT -5
I look for good deals since it's easy to spend on worthless bundles. Try to pick your bundles, so it's better if you need both items. Also, look to see which part of the bundle contains more components. So if you see 710 Ember + 120 Haechi, and you want only Haechi, then that's not a good deal since it's bundled with so much worthless junk.
For Au, I look for a 1:1 conversion, or as close to it. 3:1 is out of my price range. Sometimes you get better than 1:1. This should be pretty easy to do wo calculator. So 360 Haechi for 500 Au is good. 710 Ember for 1000 is good. I only look at the component I want when making the comparison. But sometimes you can look at both and just add them up. So 120+360 = ~ 500 components total for 500 Au is good.
For WSP, I look for a 10:1 conversation. So same as above, just multiply by 10 or add a 0 at the end if you can't do math.
The main thing is to pick teh right bundle for the best prices. So 710 Ember + 120 other is gonna be good for the Ember deal. You want high components of your main thing, and low components of the worthless junk so you don't pay for that junk. If you see 360 + 240, then it's gonna have a lot of something you don't want.
As for buying WSP points w Au, someone made a chart, but I haven't looked at it. It might be worth it since it's really the same currency now, and so I think of it as an exchange rate. You could say the rate is 10:1 so WSP to Au. That's really rough estimate, so you might want to study the charts more and do your own math to figure out your pain point. You know, amount of time making excel charts vs just playing the game.
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Post by Heishiro on Nov 7, 2017 20:24:49 GMT -5
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Post by moody on Nov 7, 2017 22:19:05 GMT -5
I do the same. Based on 400au or 3200wsp for 120 heichi components. Up to 12au per day works out cheaper. |
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Post by T34 on Nov 7, 2017 23:29:53 GMT -5
..
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Post by T34 on Nov 7, 2017 23:40:12 GMT -5
Take 2
I mentioned on another thread some time ago that I will be hedging my bets by purchasing small amounts of WSPs. Depending on how I feel I purchase between 12 Au and 29 Au worth of WSPs daily. That’s between 800-1150 WSPs daily. My WSP stash has only gone down by 25K since 3.3.
Using WSP is a better way to purchase than using gold provided you convert a smaller amount of AU daily. The question is how much you convert daily. That on the other hand depends on how many items you are targeting.
Also worth noting that the offer algorithm seems to pic up what you are targeting / buy and will drop the component offer for those items in the bundles. Early on I went for the haechi and the amber. Kept buying the Haechi and the best deal I get now is 120 -140 components. I have given up on the amber and now getting multiple 710 offers every day. Got over 5000 amber components but will hold off and see if the offers go up to 1400 than buy a gold and WSP offer in one hit. Then will hang back and see if the cycle returns while concentrating on something else. I am extremely close to a haechi so will keep buying them.
Table below shows some conversion related matters
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Post by T34 on Nov 7, 2017 23:41:40 GMT -5
cant paste table in so here is an unformatted dump
WSP Buy Au Cumilative WSP Cumilative Au Daily WSP Ratio (WSP/AU)
60 5 60 5 610 122.0
80 8 140 13 690 86.3
110 12 250 25 800 66.7
150 19 400 44 950 50.0
200 29 600 73 1,150 39.7
250 45 850 118 1,400 31.1
320 70 1170 188 1,720 24.6
410 110 1580 298 2,130 19.4
520 170 2100 468 2,650 15.6
610 260 2710 728 3,260 12.5
720 400 3430 1128 3,980 10.0
840 620 4270 1748 4,820 7.8
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Post by Heishiro on Nov 8, 2017 1:03:17 GMT -5
i did computation by purchasing the 3 gold (5,8,12 = 25 golds) to wsp deal for 30 days.
daily wsp only for 30 days = 15,300 wsp
daily wsp + 25 golds for 30 days = 22,800 wsp
25 golds for 30 days = 750 golds
7,500 wsp difference between normal wsp vs wsp + 25 golds per day.
in short comparing 7500 wsp and 750 golds, we can have 3-4 wsp deal conversion to component if we use 25 golds per day.
while 750 golds can only do 1 component deal.
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Post by frunobulax on Nov 8, 2017 3:43:38 GMT -5
I can't eally say I've consideed it, as the ratio of 120 components (1.2% of a bot) for 1700 wsp equates to about 142k wsp for a bot... I stopped the rest of my math at that point. Exactly. Basically, you can't get an Haechi unless you spend insane amounts of gold or WSP. Weapons are more accessible, you can get components for Ember, Tempest and Shocktrain at a rate of 1:5 for WSP. |
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Post by frunobulax on Nov 8, 2017 3:46:09 GMT -5
cant paste table in so here is an unformatted dump WSP Buy Au Cumilative WSP Cumilative Au Daily WSP Ratio (WSP/AU) 60 5 60 5 610 122.0 80 8 140 13 690 86.3 110 12 250 25 800 66.7 150 19 400 44 950 50.0 200 29 600 73 1,150 39.7 250 45 850 118 1,400 31.1 320 70 1170 188 1,720 24.6 410 110 1580 298 2,130 19.4 520 170 2100 468 2,650 15.6 610 260 2710 728 3,260 12.5 720 400 3430 1128 3,980 10.0 840 620 4270 1748 4,820 7.8 And if I convert no gold to WSP then my ratio is infinity?  Seems that WSP/AU column needs some adjusting. The gold:WSP ratio drops below 5 at the 70 gold mark. So I buy the 250 WSP for 45 gold, but not the 320 for 70. |
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Post by moses on Nov 8, 2017 13:58:46 GMT -5
i did computation by purchasing the 3 gold (5,8,12 = 25 golds) to wsp deal for 30 days. daily wsp only for 30 days = 15,300 wsp daily wsp + 25 golds for 30 days = 22,800 wsp 25 golds for 30 days = 750 golds 7,500 wsp difference between normal wsp vs wsp + 25 golds per day. in short comparing 7500 wsp and 750 golds, we can have 3-4 wsp deal conversion to component if we use 25 golds per day. while 750 golds can only do 1 component deal. Seems like a good approach to me - you will still also be building gold up from daily tasks |
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Post by hon_shu on Nov 8, 2017 14:03:26 GMT -5
Here, too. I take the first four or five Au->WSP deals each day so that I can generate about a 1000 WSP a day.
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Post by copilotjesus on Nov 8, 2017 14:39:49 GMT -5
I'm not spending gold on anything until I have 2-3 hangars. When I do, I think any conversion I can get that is better than the offers is probably worth it. 500 gold gets you about the same amount of components as ~1400 workshop points, which is less than 3 WSP per gold spent. If you spend gold to buy WSP, you're getting around 10 WSP per gold spent for the first three daily purchases.
So if you're getting 10 WSP per gold spent, you're doing decent. Making gold purchases for components seems like terrible value in comparison.
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Post by moody on Nov 8, 2017 16:16:55 GMT -5
Also worth noting that the offer algorithm seems to pic up what you are targeting / buy and will drop the component offer for those items in the bundles. Early on I went for the haechi and the amber. Kept buying the Haechi and the best deal I get now is 120 -140 components.
I actually don't believe this is the case (I know that's probably what I would do if I were pix). Every time I have heard it brought up I have compared deals with those that have not bought the same deals - and they are exactly the same. Everyone is getting 120 component deals for Hitachi now. |
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Post by T34 on Nov 8, 2017 16:47:40 GMT -5
Also worth noting that the offer algorithm seems to pic up what you are targeting / buy and will drop the component offer for those items in the bundles. Early on I went for the haechi and the amber. Kept buying the Haechi and the best deal I get now is 120 -140 components.
I actually don't believe this is the case (I know that's probably what I would do if I were pix). Every time I have heard it brought up I have compared deals with those that have not bought the same deals - and they are exactly the same. Everyone is getting 120 component deals for Hitachi now. You could be right but there were apparent cases of different offers being presented to me and some clanies who were not purchasing through the special offers. the guy said he had 2x 240 haechi componenet offer when all I had is 120. I just cannot see why he would say 240 when all he had is 120. no skin off his nose if you know what I mean. we were discussing it live on discord. |
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Post by copilotjesus on Nov 8, 2017 16:55:44 GMT -5
I believe that you stop getting deals for the larger offers once you get above 80% of the way towards a specific item. My first item was a Scourge, and I stopped getting better offers once I was 85% of the way there. I had to buy out the rest of the way with smaller offers of scourge components.
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Post by cmdrperalta on Nov 8, 2017 17:00:30 GMT -5
Didn't they say they were going to offer better perks to people in higher leagues? Maybe that's one of the perks?
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Post by T34 on Nov 8, 2017 17:34:51 GMT -5
And the other thing with the offers that does not seem random is that since I got really close to the Haechi I only get WSP offers for 120 components every second or third day.
I picked up good Bulgie offers early then the component numbers on offers dropped. Then stopped buying. Today I have an offer for 430 Bulgie components. Havent bought shocktrains and now the shock train offer is at 710 components for WSPs.
this mixing of offers achieves a few things
1. Significantly delays a players chance to assemble an item.
2. Depletes WSP stash quick because you also need buy the other components in the bundle
3. Without other sources of components it will probably take 6 months to get something at a horrible cost. Eg 120 Haechi at 500 au would translate to 41K gold for a bot. Insane.
I am wondering if the more effective approach is to target a group of items. Purchase when the offers are good. Move onto the next item when the offer is good and stop purchasing the first targeted item. Keep moving the target pending on the offer. This method will still take 6 months but the cost will be a fraction.
Also worth noting that weapons like the tempest are of most benefit when you have three. Not much point in having one........also worth bearing in mind that Pixonic could change things around when they feel like it.
at the end of the day it will take for ever to get benefit from this mechanism and will cost a lot.
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Post by T34 on Nov 8, 2017 17:46:32 GMT -5
I believe that you stop getting deals for the larger offers once you get above 80% of the way towards a specific item. My first item was a Scourge, and I stopped getting better offers once I was 85% of the way there. I had to buy out the rest of the way with smaller offers of scourge components. I tried to avoid scourges like the plague and only purchased them when with another bundle.
Today this is what I have in terms of scourge offers (wonder what your offers are like today in terms of scourge)
1. 240 Emb + 480 Scourge – 1900 WSP
2. 430 Bulg + 710 Scourge – 4400 WSP
3. 240 Emb + 710 Scourge – 700 Au
4. 120 Inq + 480 Scourge – 500 WSP
So for 6300 WSPs and 1200 Au I could pick up 2380 Scourge components. At the rate of my Au to WSP conversions that would work out to be worth 1600 Au which would place a scourge at 6700 Au.
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Post by copilotjesus on Nov 8, 2017 18:44:20 GMT -5
Sometimes I have a dream, and want to try out something crazy. Galahad with Gekkos and Scourge was my latest dream, and will eventually find a spot when I can setup a hangar geared for long range.
I'm just hoping it's more successful than my dream of a Natasha with Thunder, Ancile, and Pinatas. At least I ended up having a spare Ancile for my Lancelot when I got one.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 18:47:10 GMT -5
I believe that you stop getting deals for the larger offers once you get above 80% of the way towards a specific item. My first item was a Scourge, and I stopped getting better offers once I was 85% of the way there. I had to buy out the rest of the way with smaller offers of scourge components. I tried to avoid scourges like the plague and only purchased them when with another bundle.
Today this is what I have in terms of scourge offers (wonder what your offers are like today in terms of scourge)
1. 240 Emb + 480 Scourge – 1900 WSP
2. 430 Bulg + 710 Scourge – 4400 WSP
3. 240 Emb + 710 Scourge – 700 Au
4. 120 Inq + 480 Scourge – 500 WSP
So for 6300 WSPs and 1200 Au I could pick up 2380 Scourge components. At the rate of my Au to WSP conversions that would work out to be worth 1600 Au which would place a scourge at 6700 Au.
What platform are you on? Here's my scourge offers today. Hopefully the guy looking to buy scourges can confirm or deny this. Inquisitor 120 + Scourge 480 = 500 Au Ember 240 + Scourge 480 = 1900 WSP I'm on iOS. Let's get to the bottom of this. In case some are wondering, Haechi offers today: Kumiho 180 + Haechi 120 = 500 Au Yep, that's it. |
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Post by T34 on Nov 8, 2017 19:02:15 GMT -5
I tried to avoid scourges like the plague and only purchased them when with another bundle.
Today this is what I have in terms of scourge offers (wonder what your offers are like today in terms of scourge)
1. 240 Emb + 480 Scourge – 1900 WSP
2. 430 Bulg + 710 Scourge – 4400 WSP
3. 240 Emb + 710 Scourge – 700 Au
4. 120 Inq + 480 Scourge – 500 WSP
So for 6300 WSPs and 1200 Au I could pick up 2380 Scourge components. At the rate of my Au to WSP conversions that would work out to be worth 1600 Au which would place a scourge at 6700 Au.
What platform are you on? Here's my scourge offers today. Hopefully the guy looking to buy scourges can confirm or deny this. Inquisitor 120 + Scourge 480 = 500 Au Ember 240 + Scourge 480 = 1900 WSP I'm on iOS. Let's get to the bottom of this. In case some are wondering, Haechi offers today: Kumiho 180 + Haechi 120 = 500 Au Yep, that's it. On IOS. This is good and now we have some data to shed some more light on the matter.
Firstly:
4. on my list had a typo. Price is 500 Au and not WSP.
(calculation of 6700 Au for a scourge still stands as I used the right values there)
Mac:
1. So probably an important question in this context - have you been buying Haechi components but not Scourge components?
2. Please check if you got this offer 2. 430 Bulg + 710 Scourge for 4400 WSPs . That’s not listed in your post.
Edit: comments from other IOS users (esp ones not targeting the haechi) would be great. For the sample of two the offers look near identical.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 19:27:32 GMT -5
What platform are you on? Here's my scourge offers today. Hopefully the guy looking to buy scourges can confirm or deny this. Inquisitor 120 + Scourge 480 = 500 Au Ember 240 + Scourge 480 = 1900 WSP I'm on iOS. Let's get to the bottom of this. In case some are wondering, Haechi offers today: Kumiho 180 + Haechi 120 = 500 Au Yep, that's it. On IOS. This is good and now we have some data to shed some more light on the matter.
Firstly:
4. on my list had a typo. Price is 500 Au and not WSP.
(calculation of 6700 Au for a scourge still stands as I used the right values there)
Mac:
1. So probably an important question in this context - have you been buying Haechi components but not Scourge components?
2. Please check if you got this offer 2. 430 Bulg + 710 Scourge for 4400 WSPs . That’s not listed in your post.
Edit: comments from other IOS users (esp ones not targeting the haechi) would be great. For the sample of two the offers look near identical.
1. No, not on this account. Only Inquisitor components and whatever it's bundled with. 2. No, but I got something very close. Shocktrain 710 + Ember 240 = 700 Au Bulgasari 430 + Shocktrain 710 = 4400 WSP You need to be an accountant. So easy to mix a number or word up. This account has very low activity too. < 50 cups |
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Post by T34 on Nov 8, 2017 19:49:18 GMT -5
On IOS. This is good and now we have some data to shed some more light on the matter.
Firstly:
4. on my list had a typo. Price is 500 Au and not WSP.
(calculation of 6700 Au for a scourge still stands as I used the right values there)
Mac:
1. So probably an important question in this context - have you been buying Haechi components but not Scourge components?
2. Please check if you got this offer 2. 430 Bulg + 710 Scourge for 4400 WSPs . That’s not listed in your post.
Edit: comments from other IOS users (esp ones not targeting the haechi) would be great. For the sample of two the offers look near identical.
1. No, not on this account. Only Inquisitor components and whatever it's bundled with. 2. No, but I got something very close. Shocktrain 710 + Ember 240 = 700 Au Bulgasari 430 + Shocktrain 710 = 4400 WSP You need to be an accountant. So easy to mix a number or word up. This account has very low activity too. < 50 cups Ok. So its probably safe to assume its near identical.
Based on this limited sample, this means we all get pretty much the same deals and the value (larger component offers) fluctuates cyclically or in a way Pix would want to have them to fluctuate. If so the most sensible option is to target multiple items and buy when larger component offers are presented. it will take forever to assemble any item especially items where multiples are required. And players must have a huge WSP stash or daily conversion activity.
In reality the whole mechanism is bogus and of limited benefit if you intend to use it as the sole source for obtaining items. This is more like a top up mechanism and the bulk of the items must be acquired via another method.
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Seems that WSP/AU column needs some adjusting.
