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Post by T34 on Oct 3, 2017 20:12:54 GMT -5
I bet all keys aren't made the same... Keys that are purchased will have better result in black market, than keys that were won in the game. I wouldn't be surprised the closer you get to component item the less likely you will win components for that item. This will entice players that are close to buy the rest with cash. Just like when the superchest meter slows down when you are closer to the end goal. This will get both the players that are addicted to gambling and players that will purchase an item at a reduce rate. I don't think they need to do stuff like that. Look at the maths. say you get an average of 20 components per bronze spin and you accumulate 10 keys per 3 games and there are 7 items on the components market the drop for all which is distributed near evenly.
that means you need to play 10,000x7 / 20 x 3 = 10,500 games to complete and receive the seven items all at one time!!!!!!!! now further assume that the average game with a restart is 10 minutes than you will have to play for 1,750 hours which equates to 73 days of continuous play
so this is nothing but a red carrot probably as far as Pluto is.
Don't fall for it people. this is a scam. All it does is provides you with components and keys in most parts so that your spin on the BM wheels is basically nothing but an underhanded way to get you to play more in hope of completing a task and to encourage you to gamble. refer to tonyfla 's post to see what he got for $170!!!
Edit: mucked up maths.
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vball
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Post by vball on Oct 3, 2017 23:40:04 GMT -5
I bet all keys aren't made the same... Keys that are purchased will have better result in black market, than keys that were won in the game. I wouldn't be surprised the closer you get to component item the less likely you will win components for that item. This will entice players that are close to buy the rest with cash. Just like when the superchest meter slows down when you are closer to the end goal. This will get both the players that are addicted to gambling and players that will purchase an item at a reduce rate. I don't think they need to do stuff like that. Look at the maths. say you get an average of 20 components per bronze spin and you accumulate 10 keys per 3 games and there are 7 items on the components market the drop for all which is distributed near evenly.
that means you need to play 10,000x7 / 20 x 3 = 10,500 games to complete and receive the seven items all at one time!!!!!!!! now further assume that the average game with a restart is 10 minutes than you will have to play for 1,750 hours which equates to 73 days of continuous play so this is nothing but a red carrot probably as far as Pluto is.
Don't fall for it people. this is a scam. All it does is provides you with components and keys in most parts so that your spin on the BM wheels is basically nothing but an underhanded way to get you to play more in hope of completing a task and to encourage you to gamble. refer to tonyfla 's post to see what he got for $170!!!
Edit: mucked up maths.
Your post is spot on, if you actually got 20 components per bronze spin. You actually only get about 20 on every third spin because it robs you of keys the other two times... So 6 to 7 components on average per spin. Lets say 7 10,000x7 / 7 comp. x 3 = 30,000 games which would be 208.3 days of continues play.... I better get started before any new items come out
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Post by T34 on Oct 4, 2017 0:03:23 GMT -5
I don't think they need to do stuff like that. Look at the maths. say you get an average of 20 components per bronze spin and you accumulate 10 keys per 3 games and there are 7 items on the components market the drop for all which is distributed near evenly.
that means you need to play 10,000x7 / 20 x 3 = 10,500 games to complete and receive the seven items all at one time!!!!!!!! now further assume that the average game with a restart is 10 minutes than you will have to play for 1,750 hours which equates to 73 days of continuous play so this is nothing but a red carrot probably as far as Pluto is.
Don't fall for it people. this is a scam. All it does is provides you with components and keys in most parts so that your spin on the BM wheels is basically nothing but an underhanded way to get you to play more in hope of completing a task and to encourage you to gamble. refer to tonyfla 's post to see what he got for $170!!!
Edit: mucked up maths.
Your post is spot on, if you actually got 20 components per bronze spin. You actually only get about 10 on every third spin because it robs you of keys the other two times... So 3 to 4 components on average per spin. Lets say 4 10,000x7 / 4 comp. x 3 = 52,500 games which would be 362.5 days of continues play.... I better get started before any new items come out Either way these are rough calculations. However, what they clearly indicate is the current system is fundamentally flawed due to multiple currencies and the tiny component pay out. No player can actually achieve any outcomes in terms of receiving items. And pigsonic knew that from the start. In this system you would get all 7 items at the same time (assuming even distribution of components). I’d say getting one item at every month or 2 would be reasonable. But protracting the payout to say to 18 months and then receiving 7 items is just crazy. Stupidly crazy. I reckon they should have one component that could be used for all items and allow the player to choose which item they want to collect. At the same time increase the pay out of components to a level where the player with say 500 cups can acquire a haechi in two months. If you want a full haechi hanger than play for 10 months or if you want it right now than pay $200/bot. I think most people will accept such situation. There may be arguments over what is the reasonable time frame to receive an item.
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Post by imnobody on Oct 4, 2017 1:02:46 GMT -5
Your post is spot on, if you actually got 20 components per bronze spin. You actually only get about 10 on every third spin because it robs you of keys the other two times... So 3 to 4 components on average per spin. Lets say 4 10,000x7 / 4 comp. x 3 = 52,500 games which would be 362.5 days of continues play.... I better get started before any new items come out Either way these are rough calculations. However, what they clearly indicate is the current system is fundamentally flawed due to multiple currencies and the tiny component pay out. No player can actually achieve any outcomes in terms of receiving items. And pigsonic knew that from the start. In this system you would get all 7 items at the same time (assuming even distribution of components). I’d say getting one item at every month or 2 would be reasonable. But protracting the payout to say to 18 months and then receiving 7 items is just crazy. Stupidly crazy. I reckon they should have one component that could be used for all items and allow the player to choose which item they want to collect. At the same time increase the pay out of components to a level where the player with say 500 cups can acquire a haechi in two months. If you want a full haechi hanger than play for 10 months or if you want it right now than pay $200/bot. I think most people will accept such situation. There may be arguments over what is the reasonable time frame to receive an item. you hand them huge sum of money to spin and in return you receive 1 grain of rice. That SHOW HOW GREEDY they are. They scam the stupid ones but cannot scam my dignity a way
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Post by dogman171 on Oct 4, 2017 11:56:24 GMT -5
The revised bm in my opinion was changed to to pacify.players wanted to know win rate so pix told us,players complained about not being able to just buy kbots so they changed that, you can purchase them know.freebie players complained about not being able to win a kbot so know you can grind it out with components.
personaly I'm not impressed enough with kbots to justify the price, until they come down to lancelot type prices I'm perfectly fine playing the bots I own. Freebie players will never own kbots but that goes for any premium robot. You want premium your need to pay up.
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Post by T34 on Oct 4, 2017 17:23:54 GMT -5
The revised bm in my opinion was changed to to pacify.players wanted to know win rate so pix told us,players complained about not being able to just buy kbots so they changed that, you can purchase them know.freebie players complained about not being able to win a kbot so know you can grind it out with components. personaly I'm not impressed enough with kbots to justify the price, until they come down to lancelot type prices I'm perfectly fine playing the bots I own. Freebie players will never own kbots but that goes for any premium robot. You want premium your need to pay up. They need to address 3 things to subdue the unrest and for the game to prosper. 1. Realistic prices 2. Availability 3. Kbot balancing in general this is what most people are upset about.
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vball
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Post by vball on Oct 5, 2017 2:14:10 GMT -5
The revised bm in my opinion was changed to to pacify.players wanted to know win rate so pix told us,players complained about not being able to just buy kbots so they changed that, you can purchase them know.freebie players complained about not being able to win a kbot so know you can grind it out with components. personaly I'm not impressed enough with kbots to justify the price, until they come down to lancelot type prices I'm perfectly fine playing the bots I own. Freebie players will never own kbots but that goes for any premium robot. You want premium your need to pay up. I was an average wallet player and I feel Prixonic laughed at us, because we didn't bring in thousands at one shot. But when you add up all the average players that are willing to shell out something, it might out way the few that give thousands. Not only will the average wallet player bring in more of a steady stream of revenue, they will get other involved increasing the popularity of the game. It's not the rich people that are bring in more players it the average players that are talking to their friends/coworkers/family, going on forums, and rating the game. Its snowball effect, more people you piss off the more people leave and the more people leave the more you have to raise your prices. The big fish are nice and will keep the lights on for a short time, but they will eventually swim away when a lot of the little fish are gone. Keep the food chain healthy and you will thrive, make the apex predators too dominate and food chain will die. That includes the Apex predators. Word of warning to Prixonic carter to the few and eventually your game will be nerfed… I know you have already made me a free player or maybe even a non-player with your recent actions and prices, I no longer will be opening my wallet no matter how good of deal you present…
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Post by Domino on Oct 5, 2017 8:18:23 GMT -5
The revised bm in my opinion was changed to to pacify.players wanted to know win rate so pix told us,players complained about not being able to just buy kbots so they changed that, you can purchase them know.freebie players complained about not being able to win a kbot so know you can grind it out with components. personaly I'm not impressed enough with kbots to justify the price, until they come down to lancelot type prices I'm perfectly fine playing the bots I own. Freebie players will never own kbots but that goes for any premium robot. You want premium your need to pay up. They need to address 3 things to subdue the unrest and for the game to prosper. 1. Realistic prices 2. Availability 3. Kbot balancing in general this is what most people are upset about. I don't care about piloting the damn thing so much as to be able to kill it with some slight chance I will live. So 2 can be last on the last.
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Post by warrobotmaddog on Oct 5, 2017 17:54:57 GMT -5
This is money!$$$$$$$$$$
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Post by warrobotmaddog on Oct 5, 2017 17:55:34 GMT -5
I agree with domino
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 2:24:53 GMT -5
The revised bm in my opinion was changed to to pacify.players wanted to know win rate so pix told us,players complained about not being able to just buy kbots so they changed that, you can purchase them know.freebie players complained about not being able to win a kbot so know you can grind it out with components. personaly I'm not impressed enough with kbots to justify the price, until they come down to lancelot type prices I'm perfectly fine playing the bots I own. Freebie players will never own kbots but that goes for any premium robot. You want premium your need to pay up. They need to address 3 things to subdue the unrest and for the game to prosper. 1. Realistic prices 2. Availability 3. Kbot balancing in general this is what most people are upset about. Here is a survey that has absolutely nothing to do with any of that, or the match maker. We appreciate your feedback and your voice is heard! Thank you for p (l)aying our game!
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Post by frunobulax on Oct 6, 2017 3:57:42 GMT -5
They need to address 3 things to subdue the unrest and for the game to prosper. 1. Realistic prices 2. Availability 3. Kbot balancing in general this is what most people are upset about. Fix matchmaking/tanking, get rid of LQ, otherwise you'll have no new players and the game will die out eventually. Just for fun I dug out my old pet account that I hadn't used for a long time. Silver 3 or something. Back then, when LQ was introduced, I used map skipping to land in LQ, to see what this was like. The account is still in LQ, so there is no reset. With my level 6 bots I lasted about 2 minutes before I meched out in 3 games I played, I sc「grape」 maybe 50k silver per game because LQ was full of TT guys enjoying a walk in the park, including level 12 Inquisitors. Any player who gets thrown there (and it's easy because the game suggests it's legal to skip maps or eject from battles) will certainly uninstall. But too late, too late...
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wombat
Destrier
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Pilot name: Wombat 8PC61H
Platform: iOS
Clan: King Killers (KKA)
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Kumiho
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Post by wombat on Oct 6, 2017 19:18:28 GMT -5
Incredible analysis. All players should read.
I started playing this game back in March, and I've been a Premium player from the get go. I've bought in game promotions, gold, keys, etc. All told, I'm in over $700 on this game. While I support any company's right to maximize profitability, I am choosing to exercise my right to no longer contribute to that profitability. My Premium expired yesterday, and I will not renew. I will continue to play, but Pixonic will never see another kopek from my wallet. Ever.
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Post by Replicant on Oct 6, 2017 21:37:59 GMT -5
Dredd77We should take their concerns with relying on Cosmetics for profitability at face value, and with 60% of the Pixonic revenue stream sitting in a deferred state, Mail.ru has to be feeling it. Paper profit with a cash-flow loss is not a pleasant place to be. I'm basically fine with your course corrections in the sense that I think they are each individually positive changes. I don't think they solve the problem though. The Match Maker is designed to push upgrading. Whether that's spending money on leveling bots or spending money on buying new-release bots, their revenue model depends on you feeling under-powered and believing you can buy your way out of that state. And you can, for a few months and for a few thousand dollars. All the various currencies and gambling mechanics are just ways to obscure the actual time-cost and provide a dial for tuning in-game inflation.
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vball
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Post by vball on Oct 7, 2017 2:16:01 GMT -5
Incredible analysis. All players should read. I started playing this game back in March, and I've been a Premium player from the get go. I've bought in game promotions, gold, keys, etc. All told, I'm in over $700 on this game. While I support any company's right to maximize profitability, I am choosing to exercise my right to no longer contribute to that profitability. My Premium expired yesterday, and I will not renew. I will continue to play, but Pixonic will never see another kopek from my wallet. Ever. - This is a major problem: You are losing a steady revenue steam, when you shaft people with over inflated prices. The small to medium size wallet players feel like their dollars are just wasted, if they buy anything in the game. So what do they do, they spend their money somewhere else... Not many people are going to buy a Chev Cruise for Ferrari price...
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Post by imnobody on Oct 7, 2017 8:27:41 GMT -5
I bet you $300 buck that this game is dying.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 2:26:56 GMT -5
I bet you $300 buck that this game is dying. Sorry already bought an inquisitor. I'd say you can have my account if you win that bet, but once the server closes I guess it won't make a difference. (joking, spent my gaming money on booze because HALLOWEEEN IS COMING AND ITS TIME TO GET WASTED AND GET SPOOPY)
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Post by zer00eyz on Oct 8, 2017 18:53:25 GMT -5
I bet you $300 buck that this game is dying. Sorry already bought an inquisitor. I'd say you can have my account if you win that bet, but once the server closes I guess it won't make a difference. (joking, spent my gaming money on booze because HALLOWEEEN IS COMING AND ITS TIME TO GET WASTED AND GET SPOOPY) SPOOPY? So scared you ?poo-poo? your pants? So drunk you can't say the word spooky? EDIT: Both is an acceptable answer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 18:58:20 GMT -5
Sorry already bought an inquisitor. I'd say you can have my account if you win that bet, but once the server closes I guess it won't make a difference. (joking, spent my gaming money on booze because HALLOWEEEN IS COMING AND ITS TIME TO GET WASTED AND GET SPOOPY) SPOOPY? So scared you ?poo-poo? your pants? So drunk you can't say the word spooky? EDIT: Both is an acceptable answer. knowyourmeme.com/memes/spoopy
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Post by zer00eyz on Oct 8, 2017 19:26:59 GMT -5
SPOOPY? So scared you ?poo-poo? your pants? So drunk you can't say the word spooky? EDIT: Both is an acceptable answer. knowyourmeme.com/memes/spoopy...Tumblr... FunnyJunk... maybe we should put this one back
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Post by Dredd77 on Oct 8, 2017 19:34:26 GMT -5
TinTheFiend deleted his account?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 19:35:32 GMT -5
I just noticed that too Dredd77. It's a real shame that a respected user left.
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Post by Randori Warblade on Oct 9, 2017 22:31:48 GMT -5
Call me crazy...but there's a second path. You could just...be patient. I mean, eventually you'll earn enough components organically to get what you want. Could take a year, but, it's a game. Maybe I'm not competitive enough. Maybe I don't get upset enough when some guy with a fully upgraded bot annihilates me. I'll wait. It's still a good game.
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Post by zeframmann on Oct 10, 2017 2:06:22 GMT -5
Call me crazy...but there's a second path. You could just...be patient. I mean, eventually you'll earn enough components organically to get what you want. Could take a year, but, it's a game. Maybe I'm not competitive enough. Maybe I don't get upset enough when some guy with a fully upgraded bot annihilates me. I'll wait. It's still a good game. Go back and read T-34's post on why that's utterly impossible.
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Post by Randori Warblade on Oct 10, 2017 8:07:21 GMT -5
Even with his calculation, AND if nothing changes - it's stupidly difficult, not utterly impossible.
That aside, I assumed that the talked-about conversion would be in play, and we don't know what that looks like yet. Can I sell ember components for something other than Au or Ag? Don't know. Will WSP convert at 1:1, or 100000:.05, don't know. In any case - it's likely that both the $300 buy, and the 18 month wait are ends of a spectrum of possibility.
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Post by danny on Oct 11, 2017 0:15:32 GMT -5
What does [M*S] in the title mean?
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Post by ΒΣRΖΣRKΛ²³ on Oct 11, 2017 0:53:58 GMT -5
What does [M*S] in the title mean? Mara salvatrucha.
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Oct 11, 2017 3:53:11 GMT -5
I'll join the "great article!" crowd, but.. So, what's the problem here? - They in fact did break game balance: the Dashes are way too OP, there's basically nothing that can goes 1vs1 against them except other dashes. The Inquisitor is even worse (for the little I've seen of it) - They will in fact break the balance even more now that they will allow a whole new 12 levels for maxed bots. Old timers and deep wallet people, that is those sitting on silver or who can buy it quickly, will have exclusive bots that are even 20% stronger. Yay. - If that wasn't enough, they still haven't fixed the tier fiddling issue. 5 dashes hangars in champions are bad, but you have a chance to have someone in your team with at least some of them to balance out. 5 dashes hangars in bronze? Back in the days, if you were good, you could counter a MagGep with a ThunderSchutze. Try counter a Dash with anything a level 20 player can have. - They made, not hard or very hard, but essentially impossible for grinding players to get the new bots. That was something that kept players without deep wallets content: put enough time to finish your dailies, and you will get the Lancelot in 3 to 4 months and, with another 3 to 4 months, you will be able to put 2 orkans and an Ancile on it. Now you can grind however long you want, the random components roulette divided for a half dozen spinnable items guarantees you can take literally years to complete anything. They published the roll tab, so someone with better statistics skills than me can do the math for multiple distributions of the rolls and the expected time to reach 10.000 on a specific item, but yeah, the feeling is that it's impossible, and the feeling is all that matters sometimes. And I don't think the workshop 2.0 is going to make it much better, because they cannot make the good stuff too easily available after weeks they asked for tons of money for them. - essentially, they broke the implicit promise that, with time, you will catch up with players that started before you or have more money than you. Is it entitlement to believe there was an intrinsic agreement on that? Maybe, maybe not, but I think it's undeniable that it was a premise of the game that, with a given set of bots and weapons that everyone can get a some point and that max out at a gven level, eventually you can get on a reasonable equal ground with anyone. Paying members would "get there" faster, but the non paying one wasn't expressly condemned to be the eternal punching ball and silver provider to them. Now it's a run with an ever moving, and accelerating, finishing line. - Then they broke the clans: with the tier system, is essentially impossible to have clans with players at different development stages. Back when I was a newbie I had the "older" players put on a light hangar and show me around the game, which both made me stick to the game, got me hooked and made me realize faster my mistakes, allowing me not to waste time, silver and gold on slly stuff (well, mostly ). Now it's impossible for me to squad with someone who is starting and my clan basically turns down any applicant that is not at the very least expert material already. Sure, the most organized clans have created a system of networked tiered clans, but that's hugely complex and inefficient, and the custom matches might address the issue a bit, but every game you play there is also a game where you are not playing towards accumulating gold, silver and spin tokens. Yay. Is that fixable? For months I thought so, but I do not really do any longer: - they cannot nerf the new bots and weapons because those who spent hundreds of dollars on them would rightly be pissed. - they cannot make them easier to get for the very same reason (which means the WSP to Components conversion to anything but ridiculous ratios is not going to happen; they could go for a 1 to 1 gold component, but that would make the new bots cost "just" twice as much as a Lancelot... unlikely) - it's highly unlikely they will stop implementing the MKII system. I don't recall an instance where they announced something and they didn't implement it. I can't tell you how I look forward to face Haecis with 20% more HPs and shields within a week, two at most, that the system goes live. - if they could and/or would have liked to fix the matchmaking and/or meaningfully penalize the tankers, they would had done that by now. When whole clans become dedicated to fiddling their tiers and those same clans are full of people sporting the best equipment the game has to offer, one quickly does the math and can't but come to the conclusion that that is not seen as a problem, it's WAD. - I don't see how they can motivate new players to stay with the game: one can accept a hazing period on the premise that it will be over at some point soon, but with the current and likely to stay system, the hazing/clubbing period is basically neverending. One will never be on a reasonably equal ground with the "older" or "richer" players, ever. What's the point in always being the punching bag? So, I will have to disagree with the otherwise greatly written article of Dredd. He seems to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that he thinks it's mostly a public relations problem and that's fixable, while I think mail.ru essentially intercoursed the game fundamental dynamics, probably beyond repair, and by that we, who love/d the game, are intercoursed too.
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Post by Randori Warblade on Oct 11, 2017 14:47:20 GMT -5
I don't know. I kinda feel like it only matters if you are pinning your self-esteem on the highest Tiers/Leagues. The folks who haven't been here as long/invested as much will naturally congregate in the lower tiers, where (barring tankers) you're not going to see a Level 13 Inquisitor with Level 13 weapons that some shiek's kid bought with your gas money. Right? As long as the playing field you actually play in is level...who cares? I don't have to have the newest, shiniest stuff. To a new player - it's ALL new. Will they ragequit the game over not being able to start at the top if they have nothing but time and money to blow? I wouldn't.
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Post by hyderier on Oct 11, 2017 15:53:27 GMT -5
I don't know. I kinda feel like it only matters if you are pinning your self-esteem on the highest Tiers/Leagues. The folks who haven't been here as long/invested as much will naturally congregate in the lower tiers, where (barring tankers) you're not going to see a Level 13 Inquisitor with Level 13 weapons that some shiek's kid bought with your gas money. Right? As long as the playing field you actually play in is level...who cares? I don't have to have the newest, shiniest stuff. To a new player - it's ALL new. Will they ragequit the game over not being able to start at the top if they have nothing but time and money to blow? I wouldn't. Pix is unlikely to allow you to avoid facing higher league opponents. They will mix leagues and basically encourage tanking+clubbing to make sure there are no safe havens (league levels) for non-payers to be in.
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