The Gold/WSP purchase guide according to Frunobulax
Sept 25, 2017 5:56:23 GMT -5
kukurukukuk, WilsonK, and 5 more like this
Post by frunobulax on Sept 25, 2017 5:56:23 GMT -5
Hi,
after fiinishing my robot analyses I think I should add something there.
First, I recommend to check out the gold purchase guide in the Wiki started by strayed, and the WSP purchase guide, also in the Wiki.
However, I'm somewhat on the fence with those guides. Parts of them were written when we had a completely different meta, and they don't reflect anything like a consensus ranking, more the individual rankings of the people writing it. And while many of this is good, some players are rather dogmatic about it. I remember once spending over an hour to revise the WSP purchase guide, adding a lot of text to the bots/weapons, listing pros and cons, and slightly adjusting the order. A few days later I found that the page was reverted - some thoughful guy reverted it a mere 4 minutes after I committed the changes. He can't have checked out what I had written, all he did was to glance at the order and revert it. So, "Maxyman123", thanks for that very valuable contribution, you convinced me to stop editing the Wiki, as I have no interest whatsoever to enter a competition who can edit the Wiki faster and more frequently.
Still, there are a lot of excellent points in those Wiki articles. What follows is my personal ranking. I will be brief where I agree with the Wiki ranking, and write a bit more where I disagree.
Gold purchase guide.
This marks the end of the "must have" secion (i.e. purchases I would recommend for everybody independent of playing style). All remaining items depend heavily on the playing style, the league you're in and the gold you have at your disposal. Therefore I won't put a numerical ranking on those items (and I think it's impossible to rank them, as the Wiki does).
The remaining items are (in my personal opinion) not viable in high leagues and should be purchased only if you have some surplus of gold and want some variety. For all of them there is a chance that they will be buffed though, so don't despair if you already own them
All of them can be very effective in lower leagues though.
WSP purchase guide
While the gold guide in the Wiki is in pretty good shape, I disagree strongly with parts of the WSP buying guide. Here we go.
after fiinishing my robot analyses I think I should add something there.
First, I recommend to check out the gold purchase guide in the Wiki started by strayed, and the WSP purchase guide, also in the Wiki.
However, I'm somewhat on the fence with those guides. Parts of them were written when we had a completely different meta, and they don't reflect anything like a consensus ranking, more the individual rankings of the people writing it. And while many of this is good, some players are rather dogmatic about it. I remember once spending over an hour to revise the WSP purchase guide, adding a lot of text to the bots/weapons, listing pros and cons, and slightly adjusting the order. A few days later I found that the page was reverted - some thoughful guy reverted it a mere 4 minutes after I committed the changes. He can't have checked out what I had written, all he did was to glance at the order and revert it. So, "Maxyman123", thanks for that very valuable contribution, you convinced me to stop editing the Wiki, as I have no interest whatsoever to enter a competition who can edit the Wiki faster and more frequently.
Still, there are a lot of excellent points in those Wiki articles. What follows is my personal ranking. I will be brief where I agree with the Wiki ranking, and write a bit more where I disagree.
Gold purchase guide.
- 3rd slot.
- 4th slot.
Still a no brainer, as it costs only 1000 gold. - 5th slot.
With beacon rush, a lot more games turn into a war of attrition, and I'm very often in my 5th bot in games I eventually win. Plus, it's of fundamental importance to have variety in your hangar - in a game that comes down to stone scissors paper in individual matchups, that 5th slot allows you to choose the right bot even if it's the 3rdd of 4th you spawn. - 4 Orkans.
Some will argue that 2 Orkans should be purchased before the 5th slot. That depends very much on the leage - in some leagues, especially leagues where you start facing a lot of robots wiith physical shields, a pair of Orkans may allow you to take out 2 or 3 enemy robots with that Orkan build. In most leagues, the 5th slot will help you more, even if you fill it with a stock silver robot upgraded only to level 5 or 6 (say Thunder Punisher Leo or RDB Griffin).
In higher leagues, 4 Orkans are really the minimum. With an abundance of Lancelots and now the introductiion of the Bulgasari, you need something to take those down. And while RDB Griffins are also very good for that, nothing beats the burst of 2 Orkans that can deal 70k damage in 4 seconds each at level 12. - Lancelot.
In lower leagues, a Thunder Punisher Lance or Tempest Punisher Lance will perform great. In higher leagues you might want to get an Ancile along to build an Ancilot. - 2 Zeus.
This is the first deviation from the (current) Wiki preference. I think Zeus are maybe the most underrated gold weapon in the game. It also takes a while to get used to them - not really to the firing mechanics, but depending on the build you have to learn how to avoid snipers and RDB Griffins, while at the same time you can't be afraid to take some damage (you'll deal much more damage with your Zeus than you take, if you do it right).
But if you do it right, you can roll the Thunder every 6 seconds in many games, especially on open maps of course. I often run a Zeus Molot Natasha (easy to upgrade the bot to 12, plus I really like Molots both for ability to do damage beyond 600m and also for the significantly higher damage from close up), and it is very rare that I hit less than 6-7 times (deal the equivalent of 1 kill), while I often have games where that Natty survives for 4-5 minutes. And many of my best games (damage wise) came mostly from that good old Natty.
Other good builds are of course Zeus Carnage or Zeus Fury. I recommend to use at least 2 Zeus, or Zeus/Scourge setup because 1 Zeus really is not enough to scary anyone off. With my Zeus Molot Natty I need only 4 hits to cripple a Griffin or to break a Lance shield, and I can also break heavier shields sometimes if I backpedal. (Zeus Scourge Lancelot is the only 1-Zeus build I like.)
I should note that this ranking is for players who prefer knife fighting and midrange over sniping. The Zeus has lost a bit of power in the current sniper friendly meta of domination games. They work great in beacon rush games though. - Ancile and/or second Lance.
Even with Dash bots, I think it's a very good idea to have two Lancelots in the hangar, one as Ancile/Taran and the other as Thunder/Orkan (or Thunder/Punisher).
This marks the end of the "must have" secion (i.e. purchases I would recommend for everybody independent of playing style). All remaining items depend heavily on the playing style, the league you're in and the gold you have at your disposal. Therefore I won't put a numerical ranking on those items (and I think it's impossible to rank them, as the Wiki does).
- 3 Gekkos.
If you are a sniper type player who likes to hang back and fire from 1000m, those babies should come in at #5 before the Lancelot. Gekkos are criminally easy to handle, as you can "mark" your target with one shot, and follow up if you get the red cross that indicates you hit. Plus, they deal enough damage that they can pretty easily break a Lancelot shield, and even stronger shields if the sniper is persistent or gets help.
A Gekko Leo is IMO the best sniper build, it has a more DPS than and is easier to handle than a Trebuchet Butch (as strongest Trebuchet build). Compared to a Gekko Patton you have a lot more HP and almost the same firepower (any heavy weapon is currently weaker than a Gekko, when it comes to long distance fighting). Hence the recommendation for 3 Gekkos for a Leo. - Rogatka.
This is just a fun robot, a great leadoff hitter if you want to get to a beacon fast in beacon rush, and a robot that allows remarkable hit-and-run tactics. It's not for everybody though, so have a look at my Rogatka analysis if you're not sure. - Fury.
In the current meta, I see Fury mainly as Zeus or Trident platform. All other configurations are better handled by other robots (Thunder Carnage is better than Thunder Fury, and Gekko Leo is better than Trebuchet Fury.) So if you love playing with Zeus or Tridents, get a Fury.
The remaining items are (in my personal opinion) not viable in high leagues and should be purchased only if you have some surplus of gold and want some variety. For all of them there is a chance that they will be buffed though, so don't despair if you already own them
All of them can be very effective in lower leagues though.- Aphids.
They have been nerfed a lot, and with the introduction of Dash bots we have a whole new class of robots that can easily avoid them. Griffins can avoid them by jumping, Ancilot and Carnage have the Ancile, many other robots can avoid part of them. I'd argue that you're better off using Pinatas. I used to run Aphid Orkan ("Stuka") Griffins, but swapped the Aphids for Pinatas at some point and never looked back. (The Pinatas give you reliable damage with their splash. Aphids are much less reliable.)
Aphids can be effective in lower leagues where you have a lot of slow unshielded robots, and less aware players. - Gareth.
If you enjoy playing in light, fast robots, the Gary is for you. It is not viable in high leagues, but can be very efficient in low and mid tier play. - Galahad.
The Galahad used to be #4 on the list, even before Orkans. But in the current meta it has lost so much value that I really can't recommend it anymore. It's good in lower leagues where you don't have that many rockets with splash, though. - Gepard.
Another victim of the new matchmaking, it's really only helpful in low leagues.
WSP purchase guide
While the gold guide in the Wiki is in pretty good shape, I disagree strongly with parts of the WSP buying guide. Here we go.
- 2 Tarans.
The Tarans are still one of the most efficient weapons in the game, even though they have gotten competition with the emergence of Punishers and the Scourge.
Taran Ancilot, PDB Griffins and Tarans on a Dash are very common in high leagues, because many players want a counter to the many Ancile builds (first and foremost the Haechi), so it's unlikely that you will swap those babies out anytime soon.
You might buy more Tarans later, I would consider hangars with 2 Taran builds as meta feasible (say Taran Haechi and Taran Ancilot, that makes 5 Tarans). So don't be afraid to get more if you like them. - 2 Magnums.
That completes the weaponry for a PDB Griffin. And I would definately want a PDB Griffin if I played in a low league, because they are beasts (and still around in high leagues).
However, we have recently seen very many good new robots that have no light slots (Dash, upcoming Inquisitor). So even though I would have recommended to buy more tarans just 2 months ago, I would now recommend to stick to 2 Magnums on that Griffin (or perhaps a Galahad if you have it). - Carnage.
The Thunder Carnage is a very efficient build, feasible up to top tier, a good anti-Dash robot, and so much fun to play. Of course, you can also use Zeus or Trident Carnage.
With its Ancile it's also very good in low leagues where you see a lot of buillets flying around. - Rhino
The Rhino used to be outclassed by the Galahad, until it got its speed buff and the Galahad lost the ability to backpedal weapons. Now it's a heavy robot that can go at amazing speed in straight lines. And unless you own a Kumiho or Rogatka, it's the robot I'd recommend as beacon cappper, like if you want to secure that middle beacon on Yama in beacon rush. There is some discussion whether the Rhino is a viable top tier build, but before the Dash invasion I saw at least a few Rhinos in the champion league hangars.
This concludes the short "must have" list. All other robots and weapons are IMO likely to be replaced for something better at one point, or simply not top tier feasible. - Tridents
A short time ago, virtually every top tier player would have a Trident Fury. I'm not sure why Tridents suddenly all but disappeared - probably because Tulumbas and Pins were buffed, and every had them ready and could just switch to them. (A Trident Fury does about as much damage as a RDB Griffin.) They have the much bigger splash radius so they can damage hiding robots that can't be touched by Tulumbas, but are much less flexible as they don't reload while firing. Also they fire in 1s intervals, so fast robots (especiially Dash robots) can evade them when it hears the whooosh of the Trident fire. Another drawback is that the best platforms for Tridents are unshielded bots, and snipers will naturally win over midrangers on most maps.
However, a Trident Fury/Carnage or a Trident Pin Natasha will still do reasonable damage, and wouldn't rule out that Tridents will be revived at some point down the road. - Raijin.
The Raijin is very situational, but has its uses, ideally as a Thunder tank in beacon rush or as a sniper. It's not as good as some gold builds (I prefer Thunder Orkan/Punisher Lance over Thunder Raijin and Gekko Leo as sniper over Trebuchet Raijin), but if you don't have them, you can use a Raijin as well. - Hydra.
With the recent damage bufffs, the Hydra is now a viable weapon. It has some psychological effect (some players just go crazy if you shower them with Hydras), and it's the most boring playstyle imaginable, so I'd never run a Hydra build (unless I want to have some fun), but if you ask me if it can do enough damage to merit inclusion in a hangar, my answer is "maybe" for domination, and "no" for beacon rush. The best setup is 3 Hydras on a Fujin, which can do 45k damage with every cycle, and about 150k damage a minute if you hit well, probably 75k realistically. This is at the lower end of the damage output a robot should have. But some players may find it efficient, and in any case it's a good idea to try every weapon/bot yourself eventually, because this gives you the best knowledge on where their weaknesses are. And since WSPs cost only a bit of silver, it's a good idea to get those items as your WSPs accumulate.
I'd use it only for domination, because beacon rush games are faster paced and you really need robots that have more DPS there. - Fujin
The Fujin is a fun robot. But unfortunately, even the strong Fujin Ancile will melt quickly in an environment where Thunders and Punishers shell out huge amount of damage. But the killer is really that the Fujin can't move with the Ancile engaged, so it can neither retreat nor get in a better firing position. I think the Fujin would be viable if it could move with the Ancile, but as it is now, it's not exactly scrap metal, but also not a robot I'd recommend.
It is an excellent Hydra platform though. So if you want to follow the call of the dark side, go ahead... - Stalker
As expected in my Stalker Analysis, the Stalker has a few fans, but there are also a lot of players out there who share my opinion that it's not viable, at least not in higher leagues, In theory it can help to do beacon tasks because it can get to a beacon, engage stealth, cap the beacon and disappear. In practice, players in higher leagues will be aware of that, and take care of the Stalker.
So this one is not really a priority. - Trebuchet
Snipers love Trebuchets. I think they have a crush on the wrong weapon. The advantage over, say, a Kang-Dae or Nashorn is that they can penetrate Anciles, so they can pick off Carnages and Haechis. And they have a bit more burst damage. However, the price of that is that they reliably give away the sniper, as every other robot will both see the sniper and when it is ready to fire. So Trebs can be ducked effectively, just hide (or try to draw the Treb bot to fire) if you see them glowing, and you're quite safe once they are fired. And any anti-sniper can pick off a Treb robot from 1000m witthout problem.
And why not Kang-Dae? As sniper, you should take care of enemy snipers first. Snipers almost never have an Ancile. So a Kang-Dae will be just as efficient against enemy snipers, as it has roughly the same amount of DPS as a Trebuchet. Also, as a sniper weapon I prefer the Gekko over a Treb, because you can "feel" with a single shot if the enemy is in cover, while a Treb shot is an "all in" thing in many situations.
A Trebuchet can do decent damage, but I just prefer other weapons a the moment.
