Post by frunobulax on Sept 13, 2017 3:47:55 GMT -5
(updated to 3.5)
The Griffin used to be one of the best robots in the game. Nowadays it's being made obsolete by a flurry of component bots, but every new player that hasn't access to component stuff should run 2, maybe even 3 Griffins in his hangar. It's a glass cannon, but it's high damage potential coupled with the ability to jump makes it extremely versatile. Another great thing about the Griffin is that it has two very good builds that you can get for silver (Punisher and Tulumbas/Pin), which makes it very accessible robot for new and low-level players.
The key to piloting a Griffin is using the jump correctly. The jump makes the Griffin very fast for a short time, and covers a long distance. If you are moving towards a backpedaling target (say another Griffin), the jump will usually gain you ~75m distance. However, the Griffin is in the air for a very long time and can be hit by all types of weapons mid-air, which makes jumping very interesting if there is a sniper or a midranger waiting.
There are a number of jump "types":
Griffin builds
First, you should know that there is no "best" loadout for the Griffin. Unlike other bots, where there is some consensus (or at least a clear majority vote) on what's the best build (Taran Ancile Lancelot, Shocktrain Bulgasari, Orkan Haechi), there are plenty of good Griffin setups, and all of the setups I mention here will have fans, plus I'll probably have missed some popular setups. In fact, the Griffin is one of the most versatile builds, and what works best depends heavily on the league, too.
My favorite loadout for a Griffin is a DB ("Death Button", Pinata/Orkan) or "Stuka" or "ADB" (Aphid/Orkan). This loadout works best with its ability to jump, as it will do massive damage while exposing the robot only for a very short time. Also very popular are RDB ("Russian Death Button", Tulumbas/Puns), Punisher, PDB ("Plasma Death Button", Taran/Magnum), Molot, "Hellfire" (Magnum/Orkan) and "Sphydra" (Spiral/Hydra) loadouts. All of these builds work fairly well.
So, can we even rank the different setups, or is it apples to oranges all the way? Let's try to order at least the knife fighting setups.
Many players have been raving about the Punisher Griff recently. But keep in mind that a Griffin is still pretty squishy. He's not a HP monster like Leo, he has no shield like Lance and Rhino, so he will always be a robot that is best used as ambush robot, trying to kill in short time. And there both PDB and Punisher Griff have a big problem, namely that they can't kill as quickly as a DB or a ThundOrkLance. And even though they can break shields, and in the case of the Punisher Griff pretty fast, the shields still add a few more seconds that any rocket setup will ignore.
And in the champions league most robots are designed to kill very quickly. So the Punisher Griff is good, but IMO not the best build.
This is my ranking, based on personal preference:
Here are some damage values (all at level 12). Keep in mind that most heavy robots have 174k or less HP, except Raijin and Leo (which are very rare). A Carnage has 114k HP + 68k shield, a total of 182 against rockets. So your success is determined mainly how fast you can deal 174k damage. An Ancilot OTOH has 270k against rockets.
Since writing the first version of this review, several weapons for the Griffin were introduced: The Shocktrain, the Storm and the Gust.
Advice for new players:
Your first heavy robot should be a Punisher Griffin, whenever you can afford it. Trust me, it's a completely new quality in your hangar, for the first time you'll learn what it means to do some serious damage. The next heavy robot should be a RDB (Tulu Pin) Griffin. Then a Plasma (PDB) Griffin. And finally an Orkan Pinata Griffin to round off the hangar. All those builds will lose their efficiency at some point, but this is true for all silver equipment. You can replace the Griffins later with Dash bots, a Hover, a Doc, an Inquisitor and a Spectre (reusing the medium weapons), or a Rhino (identical loadout).
You will find my other analysis threads linked here.
The Griffin used to be one of the best robots in the game. Nowadays it's being made obsolete by a flurry of component bots, but every new player that hasn't access to component stuff should run 2, maybe even 3 Griffins in his hangar. It's a glass cannon, but it's high damage potential coupled with the ability to jump makes it extremely versatile. Another great thing about the Griffin is that it has two very good builds that you can get for silver (Punisher and Tulumbas/Pin), which makes it very accessible robot for new and low-level players.
The key to piloting a Griffin is using the jump correctly. The jump makes the Griffin very fast for a short time, and covers a long distance. If you are moving towards a backpedaling target (say another Griffin), the jump will usually gain you ~75m distance. However, the Griffin is in the air for a very long time and can be hit by all types of weapons mid-air, which makes jumping very interesting if there is a sniper or a midranger waiting.
There are a number of jump "types":
- The easiest way to use the jump is to hide behind cover, jump up in a straight line, unload all rockets while you're jumping and land behind the same cover. This way you can aim your rockets over obstacles while exposing yourself only for a very short time. This jump is extremely efficient if you have a rocket build (Orkans/Tulumbas).
- Also fairly easy to master is to jump close to an opponent. Say you have a DB loadout (weapon types are explained below if you are not familiar with the terminology), and you spot an opponent 350m away, you just jump towards it. You will gain 50m very quickly and start firing in mid air, and usually your opponent will be dead by the time you land. Targeting is very easy if you are jumping in a straight line. It's a bit more tricky if you're moving at an angle, because you have to aim a bit to the side, but you'll pick that up very quickly.
This technique is also efficient if you have a Plasma or Punisher build. You won't kill your opponent as quickly, so you'll have to time your jump - for example, against a Zeus build jump when he fires at a different target, because he'll need to reload for 5 seconds. - Of course, if you can jump in, then you can jump out. But due to the long cooldown you'll have to choose. You can use this while attacking: Walk in range (out behind cover), fire your weapons, and jump out at the right moment - often when the opponent starts firing at you. Or, if you are up against an Aphid build, jump when the Aphids are fired and in the air, and most of them will miss you. Or, if you are walking peacefully, minding only your own business, and suddenly missiles start exploding near you, get the hell out of there. (Homing missiles will hit you in jump, unfortunately.)
The 1 million dollar question of course is "where". And if you're in a Griffin, you should always know exactly where you want to jump, just in case. And you'll have to know the build of your opponent. If you're up against an Orkan build, it will often suffice to jump away from the opponent to get out of range. But if you're up against a Plasma build and 250m away, it won't help to jump because you'll land 330m away, conveniently in range of the Tarans and out of range for your Orkans. So another technique is to jump into cover.
Whenever you jump, an intimate knowledge of the map will be your best friend. Where are large buildings, where are smaller ones? Which buildings can conveniently (or unconveniently) block your jump? If you're streaking towards the side beacon on Death City, 80% of the jumps will end up in a wall and you will still be exposed. - Chipped jump. This is an ability not easily mastered. You can jump in a way that you barely touch a structure, which will affect your jump - ideally it will shorten the jump to expose you less to snipers, Zeus and all other maladies. There are a number of videos up at youtube that will teach you how to do this.
- Jump to cover ground. On large maps like Yama, and at the start of the game, you can use the jump to increase speed. However, be very careful with that. I see a lot of Griffins jumping on Moon for example, and they will often engage the opponents rushing the middle before the cooldown is over, so they lose the ability to jump into safety.
- Jump on top of structures. For a long time it was a sport to jump on the large curved roof in Shenzen and fire Hydras/Spirals from there, very much protected from all enemy fire. I'm not a big fan of that, because it mainly favors weapon loadouts that I consider ineffective.
Griffin builds
First, you should know that there is no "best" loadout for the Griffin. Unlike other bots, where there is some consensus (or at least a clear majority vote) on what's the best build (Taran Ancile Lancelot, Shocktrain Bulgasari, Orkan Haechi), there are plenty of good Griffin setups, and all of the setups I mention here will have fans, plus I'll probably have missed some popular setups. In fact, the Griffin is one of the most versatile builds, and what works best depends heavily on the league, too.
My favorite loadout for a Griffin is a DB ("Death Button", Pinata/Orkan) or "Stuka" or "ADB" (Aphid/Orkan). This loadout works best with its ability to jump, as it will do massive damage while exposing the robot only for a very short time. Also very popular are RDB ("Russian Death Button", Tulumbas/Puns), Punisher, PDB ("Plasma Death Button", Taran/Magnum), Molot, "Hellfire" (Magnum/Orkan) and "Sphydra" (Spiral/Hydra) loadouts. All of these builds work fairly well.
So, can we even rank the different setups, or is it apples to oranges all the way? Let's try to order at least the knife fighting setups.
Many players have been raving about the Punisher Griff recently. But keep in mind that a Griffin is still pretty squishy. He's not a HP monster like Leo, he has no shield like Lance and Rhino, so he will always be a robot that is best used as ambush robot, trying to kill in short time. And there both PDB and Punisher Griff have a big problem, namely that they can't kill as quickly as a DB or a ThundOrkLance. And even though they can break shields, and in the case of the Punisher Griff pretty fast, the shields still add a few more seconds that any rocket setup will ignore.
And in the champions league most robots are designed to kill very quickly. So the Punisher Griff is good, but IMO not the best build.
This is my ranking, based on personal preference:
- A DB gets my #1, as it's extremely versatile in all leagues, from Bronze to Champion. Can kill almost all robots except Leo and Raijin (if they have no energy shield) in less than 4 seconds.
An ADB "Stuka" build is pretty much equivalent to a DB. It has advantages (can fire over/around some obstacles) and disadvantages (Aphids will miss where Pinatas will hit). Yes, there are more Anciles around than a half a year ago. But with teamwork and smart play, this build can still rock. - RDB. It's cheap, he's very versatile, it provides much needed splash in lower leagues, it can fire by jumping out of cover for just a few seconds. IMO viable up tp Expert and even Master, although he is sighted less in higher leagues because of better options.
- PDB. They used to be king of the mountain in lower leagues. In higher leagues there is an abundance of shielded robots which makes it pretty ineffective there. In lower leagues it's at par with the Punisher Griff now, a bit more damage at close range, significantly less damage at 350m, but 500m range, and that high total damage that can melt Anciles. Pretty comparable to the Punisher Griff - the big advantage is that he can stay at 300-350m where Thunders and Punishers do less damage and out of Orkan range, but he'll need 15 seconds to break a shield (which a Punisher can do in 3-4s, at least at point blank range), it can't melt Anciles as support for rocket loadouts and it doesn't deal any damage from outside 350m.
- Scourge Spark. Well, this setup could be #1, but frankly, if you have 2 Scourges and 2 Sparks, then you'll probably have better robots than a Griffin to use them. And the upgrade time of the Spark is ridiculously high.
- Punisher Griff. One of my favorites, and in every smurf account I started I ran a Punisher Griff at some time.
Massive damage in very short time. Even cheaper than RDB. It needs to get close, really close for max damage, but you can also deliver some hits from 400m, safely out of range of those Orkans. Within 50m if you want to get the full damage, and within 150m if you want to out-damage Plasma. And that means you're toast if you face a PDB from 350m or any rocket setup at 280m. Also Puns don't reload while firing so you're a sitting duck during the reload window. - Aphex (Aphid/Vortex). I'm not a big fan of vortex based builds, but whenever this build hits, it's a major blow.
- Molot Griffin: It has a completely different role. It does very good damage from a long range. If the map allows, it can work from 700m against midrange setups and from 450m against Orkan/Punisher setups. But even though it has a theoretical 230k damage in 12 seconds, this again applies at point blank range, where you don't want to use your Molot Griff. But if we assume that it can do 1/4th of that from 600-700m, this is still 70k damage in 12s, and it can certainly wear down opponents on open maps. But maybe the biggest advantage of this build is the psychological effect, you'll force a lot of red robots to run for cover, crippling enemy snipers and midrangers. That means you won't do a lot of damage, but you disrupt the red support bots - it's a rather unselfish build, but can be key to a victory.
Molots do close to their their maximal damage around 300m. So there is no reason to get too close, if you're up against knife fighters with 300-350m range then your sweet spot is at about ~400m, far enough to stay outside of dash/sprint range but close enough to do a lot of damage.
Against a sniper, it has roughly the same damage output in than a Gekko/Treb Natty, but he needs 12s line of sight, while the Treb deliver 50k in a heartbeat. So at 700m range I'll take the sniper anytime. But its damage output increases as it gets closer, and at 400m it's much more effective than that Gekko/Treb Natty, plus it can jump out of trouble. - Magnum Orkan (Hellfire) and Pinata Taran (no name). Why so low? Because I don't like mixed builds. You only have roughly half the firepower against both Ancile and physical shield builds. In high leagues pretty much all robots are shielded or can at least jump away (Griffins). In a pure rocket or plasma builds you can try to seek out a fitting target - in a DB look for Lancelots (without Ancile), Carnages (enough firepower to kill them) and Rhinos, in a plasma build try to locate Griffins, Carnages and the like. But if you use a mixed Plasma/Rocket build, you can't choose a good target because you'll have half firepower no matter which enemy you face.
So don't do that, use either Mag/Taran or Pinata/Orkan. - Sphydra. Spirals and Hydras were recently buffed to be viable weapons. However, all homing missiles need to be fired behind cover, so the Sphydra does not use the main advantage of the griffin, it's jump. If you really want to chuck Hydras, use a Hydra Fujin (with Ancile) or Sphydra Rhino (with physical shield).
Here are some damage values (all at level 12). Keep in mind that most heavy robots have 174k or less HP, except Raijin and Leo (which are very rare). A Carnage has 114k HP + 68k shield, a total of 182 against rockets. So your success is determined mainly how fast you can deal 174k damage. An Ancilot OTOH has 270k against rockets.
- A DB Griffin has 60k burst DPS and deals 168k damage in 3.2 seconds. As rockets reload while firing, the true damage potential is ~185k damage in 4 seconds. After that the DPS rate is very small.
- A Punisher Griff has an astronomical 540k damage that he can create in 20 seconds. BUT, he's a slow starter: He'll deal 20k DPS in 3 seconds, and then 30k DPS for 16 more seconds.
- A PDB (Plasma) Griff has 21k burst DPS and deals 200k in 9.6 seconds.
- A Thunder Orkan Lance has 53k DPS and deals 180k in 4 seconds, 225k in 7 seconds.
- A Thunder Carnage has 30k burst DPS and deals 210k in 7 seconds. After that, the rate of fire slows down.
Since writing the first version of this review, several weapons for the Griffin were introduced: The Shocktrain, the Storm and the Gust.
- Shocktrain builds are always strong, and the Griffin can deliver a blast while jumping, exposing itself for a short time. However, I don't think there is a good light weapon that complements the Shocktrain - probably Gekkos are the best, because they're energy weapons too and you can "feel" if you can hit your target with the Shocktrains. Still, I think there are better platforms for Shocktrains: Bulgasari, Haechi, Fujin, Hover.
- I'm not sold on Storm builds. The Griffin is too slow to be played like a Thunder Carnage, and Storms require to get really close - while Punishers do significant damage from 150m or even 400m, the Storm damage is much lower. So I'd take a Punisher Griffin over a Storm Griffin.
- Gust/Orkan is a very interesting build, IMO. Much like a Thunder Orkan Lancelot you can strip an Ancile with the Gust and then hit your target with Orkans. Against Ancile builds, this one will be stronger than Death Button or Stuka builds.
Advice for new players:
Your first heavy robot should be a Punisher Griffin, whenever you can afford it. Trust me, it's a completely new quality in your hangar, for the first time you'll learn what it means to do some serious damage. The next heavy robot should be a RDB (Tulu Pin) Griffin. Then a Plasma (PDB) Griffin. And finally an Orkan Pinata Griffin to round off the hangar. All those builds will lose their efficiency at some point, but this is true for all silver equipment. You can replace the Griffins later with Dash bots, a Hover, a Doc, an Inquisitor and a Spectre (reusing the medium weapons), or a Rhino (identical loadout).
You will find my other analysis threads linked here.